Jon Venables

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Jon Venables

Postby fairydandy » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:25 pm

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/u ... 048766.ece

I'm as keen as anyone to know what he has done this time, but I'm probably quite alone in that I can't hate this man. I don't know why I can't hate him, he killed a little child after all...but then he was a child himself. Is there such a thing as an evil child? Maybe there is, but two evil children together? I'm not so sure what was going on in their minds.

He has no chance of anonimity now and will probably be killed himself if his fellow inmates find out who he is.

How do you feel about it all?
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby Y2marmar » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:38 pm

I'm not sure. I'm really really divided on this. On the one hand, he was only ten years old when it happened. But on the other hand, even ten year olds know the basic difference between right and wrong. Surely he knew what he was doing was wrong.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby Misfire » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:41 pm

It's difficult to answer this one, until we find out why he's back behind bars.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby Knute » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:46 pm

Yeah, I'm inclined to think there's something wrong with the guy at the very core of his being.
I mean I never had the desire to torture and kill a person when I was ten and I suspect that's the case with 99.8% of people on Earth.

It's like when you read about serial killers' childhoods and it turns out a good number of them tortured and killed animals.
There's something not right with the wiring in people like that.
It's probably fortunate that this guy is back in jail for it would not shock me if he ends up hurting someone again.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby Elessar » Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:47 pm

Jack Straw has said that it's in the best interests of the public for the reasons to be kept secret. Given the huge amount of public interest, and the fact that Venables is safely behind bars, how could it possibly not be in the public's interests to know? I think it must be because there are certain members of the public who should not know. I think perhaps that certain member is Robert Thomson. After all, he's still a "success" from a rehabilitation point of view. Given the money pumped into turning these two kids into adults, and given that it looks like half of that has been wasted, they won't want to jeopardise things for the other one.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby fairydandy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:02 am

Elessar wrote:Jack Straw has said that it's in the best interests of the public for the reasons to be kept secret. Given the huge amount of public interest, and the fact that Venables is safely behind bars, how could it possibly not be in the public's interests to know? I think it must be because there are certain members of the public who should not know. I think perhaps that certain member is Robert Thomson. After all, he's still a "success" from a rehabilitation point of view. Given the money pumped into turning these two kids into adults, and given that it looks like half of that has been wasted, they won't want to jeopardise things for the other one.



Maybe he tracked down Thomson and they now have to move him again?
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 04, 2010 12:11 am

fairydandy wrote:
Elessar wrote:Jack Straw has said that it's in the best interests of the public for the reasons to be kept secret. Given the huge amount of public interest, and the fact that Venables is safely behind bars, how could it possibly not be in the public's interests to know? I think it must be because there are certain members of the public who should not know. I think perhaps that certain member is Robert Thomson. After all, he's still a "success" from a rehabilitation point of view. Given the money pumped into turning these two kids into adults, and given that it looks like half of that has been wasted, they won't want to jeopardise things for the other one.



Maybe he tracked down Thomson and they now have to move him again?


That was my first thought, but then I realised that I was probably being too speculative - basically anything he's done could be harmful to Thomson. A minor violation could put Thomson on edge, and what he's been doing perfectly well for 8 years could become something difficult and stressful for him; On the other extreme, if Venables has killed again, Thomson could fear that he'll always be 'evil'. For that reason, it may be that they feel it's not in the public's interests to reveal the true reason.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby _Bijou_ » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:29 am

People should know I think. Why give a murderer so much protection? He put himself in that position. He didn't just kill that little boy, he tortured him. Plenty of children have terrible upbringings but they don't do something like that as a result so yes I think he is pure evil. It's ridiculous that the reason isn't being released. You would have to be a fool and somewhat strange to side with a beast like that.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 04, 2010 2:01 am

_Bijou_ wrote:People should know I think. Why give a murderer so much protection? He put himself in that position. He didn't just kill that little boy, he tortured him. Plenty of children have terrible upbringings but they don't do something like that as a result so yes I think he is pure evil. It's ridiculous that the reason isn't being released. You would have to be a fool and somewhat strange to side with a beast like that.


This is why people shouldn't be told. People in general react with irrational, unreasoning hatred and tend to miss the vital point. It's not just protecting Venebles not to let this information out. It's got nothing to do with siding with him, it's to do with the safest course of action. If people knew who he was and thought the same as you do, and something did happen, someone actually did manage to kill him, what has that achieved? One more person becomes a murderer.

They were CHILDREN. There's no point saying lot's of people have bad upbringings and don't do that, because children, don't do that, but they did. Something is wrong there, and it's not because he was just that nasty, there are some cruel kids in the world and they don't do that, people aren't wired to do that. Making this information public would achieve absolutely nothing. Some people might feel high and mighty about it meaning a murderer was not being protected, but what would you suggest instead? There are other considerations besides moral highground. The only thing information like this being given out ever leads to is more problems.

I don't understand this reasoning at all. It's ridiculous that it's not being released? What would you do with the information if you had it? How would it help you, or anyone else, to be told why he's back in prison? He's in prison, it's fair to say all the "siding" has been done.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby JLP » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:49 am

_Bijou_ wrote:People should know I think. Why give a murderer so much protection? He put himself in that position. He didn't just kill that little boy, he tortured him. Plenty of children have terrible upbringings but they don't do something like that as a result so yes I think he is pure evil. It's ridiculous that the reason isn't being released. You would have to be a fool and somewhat strange to side with a beast like that.



I was around when Jamie Bulger was killed. Indeed my wife was pregnant with our first child. At the time I was revolted by the killing. I was also appalled by the way he had been brought up. Sure many children have bad upbringings but not all murderers have bad upbringings so it is difficult to generalise.

Do I hate the man Venables has grown into? No I don't. I really do not see how you can call him a beast until we know, if we ever do, what is the reason for him being put inside. It might be something as simple as him returning to Liverpool which he is not allowed to do. Or something much worse as in another murder.

Maybe we should hold back on our vigilante type reactions until we know the truth.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby JLP » Thu Mar 04, 2010 9:58 am

Some stories here

http://www.newsnow.co.uk/h/?JavaScript= ... n+venables

suggest he had a brawl at work. Harly worth getting worked up about really.

Oh and he does cocaine. :roll: Hardly a crime these days.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby fairydandy » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:06 am

_Bijou_ wrote:People should know I think. Why give a murderer so much protection? He put himself in that position. He didn't just kill that little boy, he tortured him. Plenty of children have terrible upbringings but they don't do something like that as a result so yes I think he is pure evil. It's ridiculous that the reason isn't being released. You would have to be a fool and somewhat strange to side with a beast like that.


I'm not 'siding' with him, I am saying that I find it hard to hate him in the way that others do. I'm not good at hating, it's not something that comes naturally to me.

If he was an adult who killed a child I would feel differently about him, but I still wouldn't want him subjected to being murdered in prison or on the streets. That's not how we do things in the 21st Century. As a person, I would gain nothing by this man being murdered. If you call that 'siding' with him, then carry on, because it's my position and I'm not bothered about saying it.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby JLP » Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:12 am

fairydandy wrote:
_Bijou_ wrote:People should know I think. Why give a murderer so much protection? He put himself in that position. He didn't just kill that little boy, he tortured him. Plenty of children have terrible upbringings but they don't do something like that as a result so yes I think he is pure evil. It's ridiculous that the reason isn't being released. You would have to be a fool and somewhat strange to side with a beast like that.


I'm not 'siding' with him, I am saying that I find it hard to hate him in the way that others do. I'm not good at hating, it's not something that comes naturally to me.

If he was an adult who killed a child I would feel differently about him, but I still wouldn't want him subjected to being murdered in prison or on the streets. That's not how we do things in the 21st Century. As a person, I would gain nothing by this man being murdered. If you call that 'siding' with him, then carry on, because it's my position and I'm not bothered about saying it.



I quickly scanned the headlines on the Newsnow page about Venables. You could almost guess the source of the story by the headline in many cases. Once again the media have an excuse to whip up hatred and hysteria over something that happens in almost every workplace in the country some of the time.
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby Ace » Thu Mar 04, 2010 1:28 pm

I'm in two minds about this subject. Society, rightly or wrongly gave these two boys a second chance. We educated them and gave them the opotunity of a new start. All they had to do was lie low, keep their secret and become ordinary citizens.

But it appears this was too much to ask. I suspect that John Venables will be given yet another new identity and another chance (that many other people don't have). Will he waste this new chance?
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Re: Jon Venables

Postby Guru » Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:43 pm

On the specific issue of the reason for the recall - I think that some sort of general announcement could be made - either it was a technical breach of specific conditions (such as entering Merseyside), or a low level criminal offence (bar brawl, fraud), or something serious.

As long as that categorisation is publicised, I don't need to know the rest.
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