This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

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This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Martin1988 » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:11 pm

Labour's election slogan:
A Future Fair For All


Tory's election slogan:
Vote for Change

So, what have the "We're totally different from the other two" party have?
Change that works for you. Building a fairer Britain.


Derp!
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Ace » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:32 pm

Perhaps Labour should have

LABOUR - F*CKING UP PENSIONS SINCE 1997
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby WeeMann » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:51 pm

Ace wrote:Perhaps Labour should have

LABOUR - F*CKING UP BRITAIN SINCE 1997


Corrected.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Queen Mum ^_^ » Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:27 pm

WeeMann wrote:
Ace wrote:Perhaps Labour should have

LABOUR - F*CKING UP EVERYTHING SINCE 1997


Corrected.


Corrected.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby WeeMann » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:27 pm

Queen Mum ^_^ wrote:
WeeMann wrote:
Ace wrote:Perhaps Labour should have

F*CKING LABOUR


Corrected.


Corrected.


And again.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Loretta » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:16 am

Queen Mum ^_^ wrote:
WeeMann wrote:
Ace wrote:Perhaps Labour should have

LABOUR - F*CKING YOU SINCE 1997


Corrected.


Corrected.

Corrected again. Anyone get the feeling nobody's overly happy with them?
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Ace » Wed Mar 17, 2010 1:09 pm

JLP wrote:As this hardly seems that serious how about

TORIES, FUCKING LOOKING AFTER THE RICH SINCE 1782. :P


Don't all parties look after the rich?

I can understand in the past that Labour was considered the representatives of the "working classes" and the Tories the "Middle / Upper Classes" but I think that position has changed.

The major difference between the two parties that I can see at the present is that the Labour party wish to maintain or even expand a public sector and the Tories wish keep public sector spending down.

In reality, public sector spending is often wasteful. However, whatever you views on public sector spending, it must always reflect your ability to pay, otherwise you become a basket case like Grease or like the UK was in the 70's.

Strong government finances and reduced borrowings ultimately benefit all the population through reduced taxes and low inflation.

Lets be honest, those people on benefits do not have to worry about interest rates, inflation, tax etc and neither do the seriously rich, as they dont pay any. It is the middle ground that picks up the bill for government spending. That includes the new middle classes of teachers, nurses, etc.

Wealth of a country is generated by the private sector providing manufacturing and services to the markets. This income is then taxed and the money spent in the public sector (who's employees are also taxed). If you tax business too much it becomes uncompetative in world markets. If you pass to much of the workload back to the public sector then the economy becomes inefficient. A balance is required.

I personally think we have tipped the scales to far to the public sector and it needs some redress. Unfortunately, due to some of the policies of the Labour Party we have built up substancial "off balance sheet" liabilities for the country.

Most private pension schemes are now in deficit and it is the government that has put in a safty net for pension schemes that fail. Some of these pension schemes are massive and ultimately will need to call upon the government scheme to bail them out.

Equally, when people retire they will draw less pension and therefore future tax take will be reduced. Many pensioners as a result will now qualify for benefits that they would not have done so prior to the "great pension tax" of 1997.

These are liabilities that our children and grandchildren will pay. Not the "rich" ones, the ordinary working and middle class ones.

I can understand those in the public sector wishing to maintain the status quo. Why wouldn't they. They've never had better employment conditions or remuneration. But we are paying for this via Great Britain PLC's creditcards and like all creditcards they have to be repaid. We are about to start repaying it. ALL parties accept this but labour want to keep the public sector workers on-side at least until the general election because they wish to stay in power. After the election, all parties will have similar plans for debt reduction.

Brown put himself on a pedastal as a great Chancelor. He wasn't. He inherited an economy that was FINALLY put on the straight and narrow by the Tories which meant that interest rates, inflation and taxation were low. But gradually we waisted this newly created wealth. We didn't invest in manufacturing nor did we maintain surpluses like other more prudent countries. We didn't regulate the massively growing banks, enjoying instead the massive tax revenues they generated.

So now we leave the legacy for our children, most of whom are already hugely in debt because they believed the government hype that a university degree was going to get them well paid employment. It hasn't and with 50% of the population going to uni it wont.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Martin1988 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 6:47 pm

It gets worse.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Belle Leisha » Wed Mar 17, 2010 7:03 pm

Ace wrote:So now we leave the legacy for our children, most of whom are already hugely in debt because they believed the government hype that a university degree was going to get them well paid employment. It hasn't and with 50% of the population going to uni it wont.


Where does that figure come from? It seems incredibly high given the numbers of people dropping out of education at 16.

I agree with you that Labour messed up, excessively, but does the idea of less public sector spending not worry you? It might be often wasteful but how much cutting down are we talking about? Does the Conservative party specify? In what areas?
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Ace » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:26 am

Belle Leisha wrote:
Ace wrote:So now we leave the legacy for our children, most of whom are already hugely in debt because they believed the government hype that a university degree was going to get them well paid employment. It hasn't and with 50% of the population going to uni it wont.


Where does that figure come from? It seems incredibly high given the numbers of people dropping out of education at 16.

I agree with you that Labour messed up, excessively, but does the idea of less public sector spending not worry you? It might be often wasteful but how much cutting down are we talking about? Does the Conservative party specify? In what areas?


The 50% is the Labour party published target.

Less public sector spending doesn't have to be painful. We have expanded the public sector so rapidly that a huge amount of money has been wasted on jobs that have been created needlessly.

The number of Quangos created over the last 13 years should be a starting point. Couple that will equalising out public sector pensions in line with the private sector along with other terms and conditions of employment. A pay freeze on public sector pay (apart from the lowest paid) so that the public sector share the pain being felt by the private sector.

There should be no sacred cows in reviewing the spending cuts. Waste, after all, is waste. This is a tough policy for those that will lose their jobs but these jobs should not have been created in the first place and those incumbents in these jobs should have been pushed in to the private sector. Private sector jobs are always going to be more sustainable in the long run and help create the public wealth.

We should scrap ID cards, the NHS computer upgrade project and the replacement of the nuclear subs.

Childcare tax credits for higher income families should be scrapped. A greatly simplified state pension arrangement should be introduced without having to rely on expensive to administer means tested "extras".

Spending on university places should be reviewed immediately so that the universities are not used as a way of keeping young people off the unemployment register. Graduates are now leaving university with no extra earning potential than when they went in.

The benefits system should be reviewed totally such that no one can say they are better off not working. No one should receive housing benefit of more than a pre-defined limit each week. Funding massive houses for large unemployed families needs to stop also. The taxpayer should not be burdened with the responsibility of providing luxury lifestyles for people who do not work.

Huge amounts of money are wasted in healthcare. Statistics show that huge numbers of visits to GPs and A&E are in fact pointless and mechanisms need to be put in place to reduce this immediately. The number one cause of visits to GPs in the winter months is colds and a sore throat, which cannot be treated with antibiotics or anything else.

GPs and doctors salaries should be reviewed and their current, massively enhanced pay contracts restricted.

We should look to reduce the massive waste of tax being spent in Europe at the moment. Britain is one of the biggest net contributors of money to the EU and yet sits on the outskirts of its policies. Maybe it is time to talk tough with Europe about our membership. Europe needs us more than we need it.

The working middle class families with household incomes between £20k and £100k are paying the brunt of all the excessive public debt. Until the banks fully recover and start generating the huge revenues back to the exchequer (yes those big bad banks generated billions in revenue for this country every year) we need to support the private sector and allow them to invest in their businesses.

Again I have to point out. You can’t spend more than you earn. Sooner or later you have to pay it back. Most of us have been there done that and realised that at some stage you have to pay a price for your overspending. We now need to pay that price. Doing nothing will make it even worse when the money markets loose faith in GB PLC and downgrade us making the cost of borrowing even higher meaning more of our money is used to pay the interest and not reduce the debt.

If you want to see what a country that has had too high a spending on the public sector you need look no further than Greece. Greece is in a catch 22. Its population has the lowest retirement age in Europe and one of the biggest public sectors with regards to jobs. All paid for with debt. The money has now run out and they are bankrupt. Luckily they are a smallish country and the EU has bailed them out. But the beneficiaries of all this "created" wealth do not want to lose it. They have grown used to it regardless of whether or not they have earned it.

We have created a society that demands top services, regardless of whether we earn them. That cannot under any political or fiscal model happen.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby JLP » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:37 am

I thought this was gonna be a light hearted thread as there is an election thread for the rhetoric and heavy stuff.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Ace » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:40 am

JLP wrote:I thought this was gonna be a light hearted thread as there is an election thread for the rhetoric and heavy stuff.


Apologies
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby JLP » Thu Mar 18, 2010 10:44 am

Ace wrote:
JLP wrote:I thought this was gonna be a light hearted thread as there is an election thread for the rhetoric and heavy stuff.


Apologies



no probs, I meant to edit my initial post but hit the delete button for some silly reason. :oops:

Think I best go to the shops.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Kes » Thu Mar 18, 2010 1:17 pm

Loretta wrote:Corrected again. Anyone get the feeling nobody's overly happy with them?


Any group of politicians that names themselves after the painful part of childbirth, has got to have got to have a couple of screws loose, and some f*cking party, not a sticky bun or cup of coca-cola in sight.

As for the Conservatives, what the f*ck are they after conserving? Certainly not foxes, that's for sure. Though I do think a lot of people who vote for them have conservatories, so maybe that's what it's about.

They say in cooking to add a liberal dash of this or that, I've not made the correlation yet what an "indecisive" amount actually means.
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Re: This is why Lib Dems have a reputation for fence sitting.

Postby Broooklyn » Thu Mar 18, 2010 2:16 pm

Change the word fence to face in the title, and I am so in this conversation!
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