The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:31 am

Delilah wrote:Ahh...fond memories of bitchslapping Ellie in religious arguments. And I was so much nicer back then. 1,375 religious arguments later and I sound more like fd. :P

Delilah wrote:Thing is, just because we don't understand it now doesn't mean that we won't some day. Show a man who lived in 1542 an airplane or a television and you'd drive him right out of his mind. Then he'd have you burned at the stake for performing witchcraft.

I think you are making a choice to believe in God, and that's okay. You can certainly do that. You can list the reasons that you believe. You just can't prove that there is any rational basis for your beliefs. That's why religions require faith on the part of believers.

Elessar wrote:If there were no humans, would there be a god? This was a question asked a few pages back.

I believe that God controlled evolution, therefore he was around before us and will be around after us. Why dinosaurs here then? Well, why not? We have no idea what fun he's having up there. I wonder how many planets with life on he has to fiddle around with?

Joking apart, I think he (she, it) puts together the ingredients and lets them do what they like. I think that 'life' is one ingredient which CANNOT be scientifically explained, which God adds into a universe which largely controls itself.

Try explaining life. It can't be explained. The interactions between atoms, creating nucleotides, creating chromosomes, creating genes, creating amino acids, creating proteins, creating tissues, creating organs, creating organisms; can be explained, but LIFE can't be explained. You can take the raw materials found in a living organism but you can't re-create a living organism. This can only be done by nature - by God.


I like the fact that I think I've come up with a new theory, when in fact I'm just talking about intelligent design, aka Magic Man Done It.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:31 am

Delilah wrote:
Elessar wrote:
Delilah wrote:Ahh...fond memories of bitchslapping Ellie in religious arguments. And I was so much nicer back then. 1,375 religious arguments later and I sound more like fd. :P


I think I'm far more militant in religious discussions than you are. You're still essentially polite and civil - I lose my patience very early on, and start doing all sorts of stupid things like referring to science, or people with degrees.


That's because I'm like soooooo mature or whatever.

I still read it as "penis in my pocket" every time. Jeez.


There's not a pen in my pocket, I'm just pleased to see you.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Delilah » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:32 am

Elessar wrote:There's not a pen in my pocket, I'm just pleased to see you.


Would be either quite impressive or massively disturbing if we're still talking about the shirt pocket.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:37 am

Delilah wrote:
Elessar wrote:There's not a pen in my pocket, I'm just pleased to see you.


Would be either quite impressive or massively disturbing if we're still talking about the shirt pocket.


Were we ever talking about shirt pockets?
Admittedly, that's always what I assumed, but was it ever explicitly stated?
(Probably - I'll go check)

Edit: Yeah, "top pockets". Ah well. My joke doesn't work, the cat was brown :(
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:39 am

I read it wrong that time too. :sleepy:


I used the term "militant" referring to an atheist on the DB forum, and he said without irony, "I prefer the term rational objector". Well I prefer the term "right", but people persist in arguing otherwise. :P
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:40 am

Delilah wrote:Elessar...tee hee hee...you got so much smarter. That thread is a classic.

Delilah wrote:People still talking about it is far from proof. There are older religions than Christianity that are still fervently believed, but if Jesus was the Messiah and the other religions are false, your argument doesn't hold up.
Elessar wrote:A Messiah isn't just a good man. He's a messenger from God (if God exists) - in a way - he IS God. MLK was a brilliant man and helped the Civil Rights movement tremendously, but did he die for his cause? Well, he did die, but did he willingly give up his life FOR us? And would he forgive his murderer as the bullet was speeding towards his head? I really do doubt it.

This is why I believe the story of Jesus is true:-
Well, this very conversation. The fact that 2,000 years later we're still talking about it and its the pinnacle of the largest religion in the world.

There was nothing miraculous about John Lennon. He did good things and he did bad things, and his good things were very good indeed. But he's not a messenger from God. Maybe he spreads God's message, but thats different. I could do that if I wanted to.
He didn't cure anyone who was sick, or bring anyone back from the dead, and indeed once he was dead, he was bloody dead. No resurrection for him.

And people say "Jesus didn't really come back to life."

Then why didn't people jup to this obvious conclusion 2,000 years ago? Why do people STILL believe such a ridiculous concept? The very fact they they do, suggests to me that its true.


I stand by my argument that John Lennon probably won't be worshipped as a messiah in years to come though.

I was quite clearly just typing whatever came into my mind, as I thought of it.
"MLK was a brilliant man and helped the Civil Rights movement tremendously, but did he die for his cause? Well, he did die, but did he willingly give up his life FOR us? "
Did he die for his cause? Oh, whoops, he kind of did...um...time to do a bit of wriggling...
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:42 am

You have to admire the conviction.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:46 am

Belle Leisha wrote:You have to admire the conviction.


Yup, I start off with my conclusion and twist whatever evidence I can think of to fit it.
I'm not actually sure when I stopped being moronic - I think I thought I was cleverer back then than I do now.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:53 am

I don't think it's moronic, no one can help what they believe, it might change and it might not, you didn't have a choice either way.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 3:54 am

Belle Leisha wrote:I don't think it's moronic, no one can help what they believe, it might change and it might not, you didn't have a choice either way.


I don't mean my beliefs, I mean the way I justified and expressed them.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:07 am

Hmm, but even that, if you think you're right about something why wouldn't you express it that way? It's not like you'd be consciously thinking well I'm making this up as I go along...If you had done you probably would have changed your mind sooner.

Moronic is things like justifying bigotry with dodgy crime figures, etc, justifying beliefs with things that you thought, is pretty reasonable. Only you know, somewhat lacking in reason. :P
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:19 am

Belle Leisha wrote:Hmm, but even that, if you think you're right about something why wouldn't you express it that way? It's not like you'd be consciously thinking well I'm making this up as I go along...If you had done you probably would have changed your mind sooner.

Moronic is things like justifying bigotry with dodgy crime figures, etc, justifying beliefs with things that you thought, is pretty reasonable. Only you know, somewhat lacking in reason. :P


Wow, you're defending me against myself. This might be a QOL first.
Could I get banned for insulting myself?
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:24 am

If load comes in here someone distract him, defending you against you might just be a step too far. :P

No I just think devout yet not malicious or extremist religious people are too easy targets and unnecessary ones, the fact that it's you and you're not anymore, doesn't seem to be removing the will not to pick on them. :lol:
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:29 am

Belle Leisha wrote:If load comes in here someone distract him, defending you against you might just be a step too far. :P

No I just think devout yet not malicious or extremist religious people are too easy targets and unnecessary ones, the fact that it's you and you're not anymore, doesn't seem to be removing the will not to pick on them. :lol:


I think I should be allowed to get away with it more, because I'm almost certain that I'm not hurting my feelings.
Yeah, if load comes in and says that while he disagrees with me, he thanks me for my contribution to the thread and thinks it's appalling the way I've treated myself, then I might have to seek psychiatric help.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:37 am

Elessar wrote:I believe that God controlled evolution, therefore he was around before us and will be around after us.


Elessar, you are a stupid, ridiculous, moronic child. Maybe one day when you've had a bit more life experience and have a few more pens in your pockets, you'll realise just how stupid some of the things you've said are. C*nt.
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