Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

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Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Y2marmar » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:16 pm

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/bre ... tml?via=mr

I'm not sure what to make of this. Sure, he's apologised for what has happened. But he hasn't actually apologised for the fact that the church chose to protect the priests.
There's NO referral to Cardinal Sean Brady, the Irish catholic leader who knew what was going on and actually encouraged two young victims not to tell anyone what had happened to them.
It says nothing about the fact that the church refused to co-operate with the inquiries and inquests
I'm really not happy with it. I think we need a little more than an apology
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby JLP » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:25 pm

Y2marmar wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0321/breaking4.html?via=mr

I'm not sure what to make of this. Sure, he's apologised for what has happened. But he hasn't actually apologised for the fact that the church chose to protect the priests.
There's NO referral to Cardinal Sean Brady, the Irish catholic leader who knew what was going on and actually encouraged two young victims not to tell anyone what had happened to them.
It says nothing about the fact that the church refused to co-operate with the inquiries and inquests
I'm really not happy with it. I think we need a little more than an apology



Yep, like custodial sentences for the abusers.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Y2marmar » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:30 pm

Exactly! If this was a teacher, or a doctor or anything else, they'd be out of their job and in jail in no time. Why should priests be treated differently?
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Delilah » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:31 pm

Y2marmar wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0321/breaking4.html?via=mr

I'm not sure what to make of this. Sure, he's apologised for what has happened. But he hasn't actually apologised for the fact that the church chose to protect the priests.
There's NO referral to Cardinal Sean Brady, the Irish catholic leader who knew what was going on and actually encouraged two young victims not to tell anyone what had happened to them.
It says nothing about the fact that the church refused to co-operate with the inquiries and inquests
I'm really not happy with it. I think we need a little more than an apology


I'm not sure that they actually think that their actions were wrong. It's hard to apologize for a system that they would still prefer to use. That's what screams out at me from the letter, anyway. No real taking of responsibility and no actual apology for how these things have been handled.

Because they aren't really sorry, just sorry that they got caught.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Belle Leisha » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:34 pm

Y2marmar wrote:Exactly! If this was a teacher, or a doctor or anything else, they'd be out of their job and in jail in no time. Why should priests be treated differently?


The question should be why ARE they treated differently. Why aren't the police doing their job.

The letter is a bit too much piety and not enough plan for reform.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:59 pm

Delilah wrote:
Y2marmar wrote:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2010/0321/breaking4.html?via=mr

I'm not sure what to make of this. Sure, he's apologised for what has happened. But he hasn't actually apologised for the fact that the church chose to protect the priests.
There's NO referral to Cardinal Sean Brady, the Irish catholic leader who knew what was going on and actually encouraged two young victims not to tell anyone what had happened to them.
It says nothing about the fact that the church refused to co-operate with the inquiries and inquests
I'm really not happy with it. I think we need a little more than an apology


I'm not sure that they actually think that their actions were wrong. It's hard to apologize for a system that they would still prefer to use. That's what screams out at me from the letter, anyway. No real taking of responsibility and no actual apology for how these things have been handled.

Because they aren't really sorry, just sorry that they got caught.


They're sorry they got caught doing what, precisely?
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Belle Leisha » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:06 pm

Protecting paedophiles, I'd imagine.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Delilah » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:25 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:Protecting paedophiles, I'd imagine.


Yep. And yes, shame on the police for not pursuing these cases using the law that they are supposed to uphold. I'll never understand why the Catholics among them wouldn't be motivated to clean house for the sake of their religion.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Belle Leisha » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:33 pm

Delilah wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:Protecting paedophiles, I'd imagine.


Yep. And yes, shame on the police for not pursuing these cases using the law that they are supposed to uphold. I'll never understand why the Catholics among them wouldn't be motivated to clean house for the sake of their religion.


I'm almost certain they are, just like every other Catholic, I just don't understand why a full scale investigation and suitable punishment hasn't happened. Those directly involved in covering it up could be charged too, they should be, as a message to anyone else within the church who things their reputation is worth more than doing right by the kids who suffered because of them. That way those within the church, and it is the overwhelming majority, who are most probably more appalled than anyone about it, can be reasonably assured the powerful minoirty won't try anything like it again.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Delilah » Sun Mar 21, 2010 6:52 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:I'm almost certain they are, just like every other Catholic, I just don't understand why a full scale investigation and suitable punishment hasn't happened. Those directly involved in covering it up could be charged too, they should be, as a message to anyone else within the church who things their reputation is worth more than doing right by the kids who suffered because of them. That way those within the church, and it is the overwhelming majority, who are most probably more appalled than anyone about it, can be reasonably assured the powerful minoirty won't try anything like it again.


Agreed that they should be and probably are outraged, but I'm with you in not understanding why there hasn't been a full scale investigation that goes as high as it needs to. Let's face it, NOBODY wants to attend a church where they have to worry about their children being molested. While that cannot be prevented 100%, they CERTAINLY don't want to go to a church where known child molesters are intentionally put in charge of their children by church leaders. They have shown an astounding lack of respect for their own people. Almost sociopathic. The people responsible for knowingly putting these children at risk need to be in prison, no matter what their title.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:00 pm

This may shock all of you, but I am sickened by some of the things that have been happening as well.

Sometimes I get the distinct feeling many people on this board truly believe that the Catholic church actually likes pedophiles and is in fact, a pedophile orginization, geared for pedophiles by pedophiles and a haven to go to so that they can carry out their horrendous deeds, protected by the church.

This simply is not true.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Belle Leisha » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:39 pm

I'd be stunned to find a Catholic of sounds mind who wasn't sickened by it, Inny. Or obviously anyone at all, of sound mind.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:43 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:I'd be stunned to find a Catholic of sounds mind who wasn't sickened by it, Inny. Or obviously anyone at all, of sound mind.


That's not quite what I was saying, though, is it? I said I fet the feeling most people on here think the Catholic church is deliberately set up to be a pedophile orginization. In other words, everyone who is a priest, bishop, cardinal, arch bishop and pope are pedophiles and/or applaud pedophilia. That is what the writing/text in these posts say to me. Not yours but the rest.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby Belle Leisha » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:49 pm

People are very harsh about the church, unduly so, I agree, but I can't really blame anyone. Yes okay sometimes people say stupid things, but even then, you'd have to say it is understandable, when an organisation which gives advice to other people about sex, could cover up something like that. If they'd have just said, this happened, handed the people responsible to the priest like anyone else would have been, then any ridiculous sweeping judgments people made would be their wrongdoing. In this case, The Pope here hasn't even really apologised for the cover up, which doesn't scream of reform, sadly.
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Re: Papal letter of apology is delivered to mass-goers inIreland

Postby JLP » Sun Mar 21, 2010 7:51 pm

Innuendoes wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:I'd be stunned to find a Catholic of sounds mind who wasn't sickened by it, Inny. Or obviously anyone at all, of sound mind.


That's not quite what I was saying, though, is it? I said I fet the feeling most people on here think the Catholic church is deliberately set up to be a pedophile orginization. In other words, everyone who is a priest, bishop, cardinal, arch bishop and pope are pedophiles and/or applaud pedophilia. That is what the writing/text in these posts say to me. Not yours but the rest.



To be fair though, when there is a systematic cover up of the abuse, it becomes quite worrying. Be that a church or any other organisation.

Of course not every Catholic priest is a paedophile. But, given the historical cover ups, one could understand why a paedophile thought he was onto a good thing by becoming a priest.
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