The world will now end

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Re: The world will now end

Postby Elessar » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:47 am

There are actually two states in America that already have fairly liberal end-of-life laws. Washington allows assisted suicide, and Oregon has the Die With Dignity Act, which allows euthanasia in certain circumstances. That's pretty much the same as Europe, where Switzerland allows assisted suicide and Holland allows euthanasia.

But then of course, if Stephen Hawking had been born in the UK he'd have been left to die by the NHS...
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Delilah » Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:48 am

Kes wrote:Food aside, the feeling I'm getting from this discussion, is that although the overtones of State healthcare is beneficial to all of the population who aren't millionaires, the political party that isn't in power, are using whatever moral issues they can to try to derail the process. Abortion's a hot issue, so let's see how we can alienate a third of the population from the side of State healthcare, by bringing what JESUS would think was right into the argument.

Honestly, if you guys can't see the f*cking politicians are preying on your peripheral beliefs, then you need to momentarily need to step away from the issue, and look at how and why these guys are making their points. I'm not too sure the anti-ones are actually anti-healthcare reforms, any more than just being anti-democrat purely for the sole purpose of discrediting the opposition.

I heard one of the twats the other day, refer to it, as turning America into a European nanny state. This strikes me as complete neurotic rhetoric, as about a third of America don't even seem to know where Europe is, let alone understand how state healthcare works. The only place currently in Europe that condones euthanasia, is Switzerland, which isn't even part of the EEC.

You know those discussions where we rattle on about the extremists of Al Qaida latching onto people who can't understand the Koran? How is this different from republicans exploiting their followers who don't understand European healthcare? This is all based in people believing everything that those they've come to respect, are telling them. No difference!


Seconded.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:29 am

That's no dig at anyone who's a republican, but let's face it, the reactions on here show that they ARE influenced by what their elected representatives say to them. There's a certain amount of blind faith, and not much evidence that they've gone "Hey, wait a minute! What the f*ck has whether I'm covered if I get a major illness, got against someone else getting a free termination?". It seems at least to a degree, they've taken the bait, and a minor side issue topic has taken precedence.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Broooklyn » Tue Mar 23, 2010 2:52 pm

Delilah wrote:
Kes wrote:Food aside, the feeling I'm getting from this discussion, is that although the overtones of State healthcare is beneficial to all of the population who aren't millionaires, the political party that isn't in power, are using whatever moral issues they can to try to derail the process. Abortion's a hot issue, so let's see how we can alienate a third of the population from the side of State healthcare, by bringing what JESUS would think was right into the argument.

Honestly, if you guys can't see the f*cking politicians are preying on your peripheral beliefs, then you need to momentarily need to step away from the issue, and look at how and why these guys are making their points. I'm not too sure the anti-ones are actually anti-healthcare reforms, any more than just being anti-democrat purely for the sole purpose of discrediting the opposition.

I heard one of the twats the other day, refer to it, as turning America into a European nanny state. This strikes me as complete neurotic rhetoric, as about a third of America don't even seem to know where Europe is, let alone understand how state healthcare works. The only place currently in Europe that condones euthanasia, is Switzerland, which isn't even part of the EEC.

You know those discussions where we rattle on about the extremists of Al Qaida latching onto people who can't understand the Koran? How is this different from republicans exploiting their followers who don't understand European healthcare? This is all based in people believing everything that those they've come to respect, are telling them. No difference!


Seconded.


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Re: The world will now end

Postby Erin » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:07 pm

Here's a sampling of some of the dumbass comments from my local news' facebook page about the bill:
Let the nightmare begin.
Here it comes...buy it or go to jail
RIP America
BBBOOOOOOOO!!!! LET THE REIGN IF SOCIALISM BEGIN!! WELCOME TO THE USSA!!
Whats next Our homes?
The moochers are happy and the workers pay the bill!
Repeal it now. Get on board people, don't let Obama take away our freedom.

Just thought I'd share the ignorance.. Sadly, the majority of people in South Carolina think like this.

I'm just glad my mom will now be able to get insurance. She hasn't been able to get approved because of a heart attack she had 5 years ago. My sister will also benefit. She can't afford coverage currently, but her husband makes too much for them to receive Medicaid.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Delilah » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:17 pm

To be fair, it does seem that much of the anti-Obama healthcare rage comes from those who don't appear to have much concern for their own health either. By golly, if chronic ringworm and 10 teeth are good enough for them, it's good enough for everyone. Yee-haw.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Erin » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:18 pm

Delilah wrote:To be fair, it does seem that much of the anti-Obama healthcare rage comes from those who don't appear to have much concern for their own health either. By golly, if chronic ringworm and 10 teeth are good enough for them, it's good enough for everyone. Yee-haw.


:lol:
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Delilah » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:22 pm

Is there any doubt that the majority of the rage over this has more to do with Obama's skin color than anything else?

Well, they did hate Clinton too. What is it, just ANYTHING that Democrats do makes the baby Jesus cry?

After all this time, I'm not currently sure what the Republicans stand for aside from being anti-gay, anti-abortion, and pro-theocracy. Is there something else that they actually stand for? I'd say pro-war, but that applies to the Dems too.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Delilah » Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:23 pm

Erin wrote:
Delilah wrote:To be fair, it does seem that much of the anti-Obama healthcare rage comes from those who don't appear to have much concern for their own health either. By golly, if chronic ringworm and 10 teeth are good enough for them, it's good enough for everyone. Yee-haw.


:lol:


Ain't much difference between our two states. :P
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:23 pm

Crazy place. You all have the right to own firearms, and when someone says "Hey, they f*cking kill people!", all these people jump on them like they're trying to take away their right to breathe. A black guy gets voted in as your leader and tries to introduce a fairer scheme of helping EVERYONE get a minimum standard of healthcare, and the guy gets accused of trying to turn the place into a communist state.

I'm not sure these republicans are that aware of what healthcare is like in Russia, but I bet they wish they had a tenth of the skill and resources of American hospitals.

I suppose you could look at it from the point of view that the firearms laws keep a steady stream of potential buyers going into the healthcare market, or at least a few of those who make it as far as the hospitals.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:33 pm

We're heading towards an age where insurance companies are going to try to screen your DNA for potential problems before they'll insure you, and these people seem to want to create a society where the divides between the perfect rich, and not so perfect poor, are even bigger. These clowns are showing their true colours, and as such should learn the lesson that they can't be allowed to rule over the country again, until they start showing they believe in the country, complete with the problems that country has.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Elessar » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:36 pm

Kes wrote:We're heading towards an age where insurance companies are going to try to screen your DNA for potential problems before they'll insure you, and these people seem to want to create a society where the divides between the perfect rich, and not so perfect poor, are even bigger. These clowns are showing their true colours, and as such should learn the lesson that they can't be allowed to rule over the country again, until they start showing they believe in the country, complete with the problems that country has.


They already discriminate on genes - car insurance for young drivers cost more if you have a Y chromosome. There are some very good statistical reasons for that, but then that's true of all insurance premiums.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:39 pm

Hmmm, maybe it should be more about what's in the jeans, as what's in the genes, but still.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Elessar » Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:44 pm

And until recently, if you'd ever been tested for HIV, your health insurance premiums went up. The logic was that even if you tested negative, you must be in a high risk category to be getting testing.

Or you're a doctor. Or a nurse. Or you donate blood.
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Re: The world will now end

Postby Innuendoes » Tue Mar 23, 2010 9:53 pm

Delilah wrote:Is there any doubt that the majority of the rage over this has more to do with Obama's skin color than anything else?

Well, they did hate Clinton too. What is it, just ANYTHING that Democrats do makes the baby Jesus cry?

After all this time, I'm not currently sure what the Republicans stand for aside from being anti-gay, anti-abortion, and pro-theocracy. Is there something else that they actually stand for? I'd say pro-war, but that applies to the Dems too.


I don't know what it is, Dee. I've got a friend who is 100% Republican and is so damn stubborn it's unbelievable. I am surprised he hasn't already called me and yelled at me, saying "Well, are you happy? You got what you wanted?"

His beef with the whole thing is that he thinks he's going to have to foot the bill for everyone who has no health insurance, now. I have argued with him until I am blue in the face, it feels like. No matter what I have said to him, he keeps thinking the state is now going to force him to get state health care when he already has compeltely excellent insurance through AT&T, his employer. I keep telling him he does NOT have to change his insurance but it's like rolling water off a duck's back. He just refuses to listen to me, at all.

he goes on and on about having to pay for other people's health insurance and then I say "Well, do you want me to die, then?" He backs down then and says no and 5 minutes later, he's back in his rant again.

Crazy!
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