The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

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The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby play it cool » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:01 pm

The BBC account:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8570301.stm

Protest The Pope account:

http://www.protest-the-pope.org.uk/

No gays welcomed.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Wed Mar 17, 2010 9:26 pm

He's a Head of State, so a State Visit is fair enough, but I don't think we should have to pay for his protection, and I hope he's met with protests everywhere he goes.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Y2marmar » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:14 pm

Huh..I wonder is he going to come to Ireland?
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:16 pm

Elessar wrote:He's a Head of State, so a State Visit is fair enough, but I don't think we should have to pay for his protection, and I hope he's met with protests everywhere he goes.


I don't get why 'we' are doing, the Pope has his own protection and then some, are the especially Government worried there's going to be trouble?
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Wed Mar 17, 2010 11:27 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
Elessar wrote:He's a Head of State, so a State Visit is fair enough, but I don't think we should have to pay for his protection, and I hope he's met with protests everywhere he goes.


I don't get why 'we' are doing, the Pope has his own protection and then some, are the especially Government worried there's going to be trouble?


Everywhere that there's a crowd of people, there'll be a huge police presence which will be paid for by the taxpayer, and the entire trip will be funded by the government as it's an official state visit.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:01 am

That would be how it works for official state visits then, there are a whole lot of world leaders I'd rather pay for less than for the Pope. We have done infact, with Presidential visits. Not including Obama obviously.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:15 am

Belle Leisha wrote:That would be how it works for official state visits then, there are a whole lot of world leaders I'd rather pay for less than for the Pope. We have done infact, with Presidential visits. Not including Obama obviously.


I agree with that - although there are some world leaders that aren't welcome in the UK. Arguably, the Pope should be one of them.
The thing is, he's mixing state business with pastoral business - I think that all the pastoral business should be funded entirely by the Catholic Church, but I suspect that won't be the case.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:16 am

Also, it's crazy that the Catholic Church is essentially a State, with treaties with many countries in the world.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:37 am

The Vatican actually is a state isn't it? I do agree I'm just not sure who you're blaming for it. To be it's a political issue, church and state should not be mixed, it's fundamentally dangerous but very much the role of the state to ensure it doesn't happen. I'm not remotely bothered by the Pope tour being Government funded, again there are considerably worse Government expenditures, weapons, etc. However if this is considered a state visit for anything other than expenses, that's too much mingling and up to the Government to be not allowing.

There would be no justification for not allowing the Pope into the UK, he's not breaking any laws or disturbing a reasonably objective peace.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Delilah » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:46 am

If he had any capacity for shame whatsoever he'd stay home and be very very quiet right now.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:48 am

I'm not sure that's in his mandate. :P Why what's he done now, specifically or is this a general he needs to shut up?
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Loretta » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:50 am

Belle Leisha wrote:The Vatican actually is a state isn't it?

It is, and interestingly, has the lowest age of consent anywhere in Europe. Makes you wonder, really.
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:53 am

Belle Leisha wrote:The Vatican actually is a state isn't it?


The website that play it cool posted summarises what the Vatican is:

Isn’t the Vatican a real State?
Yes, legally, but it is unique. The Vatican is an artificial State inhabited mainly by priests. It was established by the Lateran Treaty in 1929 with the Fascist dictator Mussolini and covers 109 acres in the centre of Rome. It is extremely powerful and its “moral” crusades adversely affect the lives of millions of people in Europe and in the world. Officially part of the UN, its “observer-state” status means it engages in UN debates on a variety of issues ranging from favourites, such as birth control, abortion and homosexuality, to the environment, war and global trade. The Vatican has diplomatic relationships with almost all the Countries in the world (174 when John Paul II died) and in many EU countries they benefit from the support of Catholic politicians or in many cases of Christian political parties. Of the 27 countries of the European Union, 14 are bound to the Vatican by at least one treaty. No other religion has such a power in Europe and in the World, thus prompting the Economist to publish an investigation about the diplomatic service of the Vatican, questioning whether it deserves its special status in the UN (21/07/2007)
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:56 am

Loretta wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:The Vatican actually is a state isn't it?

It is, and interestingly, has the lowest age of consent anywhere in Europe. Makes you wonder, really.


I think that's a historical quirk rather than anything else - when the italian age of consent was raised to 14, it didn't affect the Vatican laws which stayed the same. But unless it takes place in the Vatican and the perpetrator is arrested in the Vatican, they'll be tried under Italian law anyway.

It does sum them up though. Surely there should be no age of consent at all, as everyone should really be celibate?
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Re: The Pope - UK tour dates 2010

Postby Delilah » Thu Mar 18, 2010 12:58 am

Belle Leisha wrote:I'm not sure that's in his mandate. :P Why what's he done now, specifically or is this a general he needs to shut up?


Oh, it's just the same old stuff, just that now Ratzy is said to be personally responsible for covering up child rape in Germany before his Pope days.

See, the average normal person would be mortified and go hide under a rock (probably in fear of jailtime), but he's gonna trounce around the world in full view of the public. Surreal.
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