Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaboration.

Discuss current and upcoming Queen projects.

Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Sir Didymus » Thu Jul 06, 2017 11:32 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
Sir Didymus wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
For me, he was vocally overrated. There is no denying his legendary status or his influence on music and musicians, but his voice simply does not move me in any way whatsoever.


For you. That's the sincher.

Personal opinion is not fact. I imagine if you named your 30 favourite singers I'd feel the same way about a lot of them as you do about Bowie.

Especially in later life, I think his vocal delivery was phenomenal. His version of Nature Boy for example is my favourite by a country mile...


Of course it is merely my personal opinion - that's why I stated 'for me'. This is all personal opinion - surely we don't need to remind each other of that, do we?

No doubt you would not agree with some of my favourite vocalists, but I don't give a shit who else likes or dislikes who I like: it is irrelevant. Same with you and your love of Bowie: no one is going to convince you otherwise.

A legend, for sure. A great vocalist? No fucking way. Incredibly dull vocalist with zero feeling...IN MY OPINION.


Indeed. But the issue I had was with the initial phrasing of your taste as something closer to fact rather than opinion.

I personally find it incredibly hard to understand how anyone could legitimately say he was 'dull' with 'zero feeling', particularly in later life, when his work was so full of emotional resonance it'd make me cry before he died, let alone now. Have you heard 'Bring Me The Disco King', for example? Or 'I'm Afraid Of Americans'? 'Slip Away'? At the very least, listen to some of the last pieces he recorded: there's a track called 'Killing A Little Time' where he's raging against the disease that's destroying him, and it's *THE* most amazing thing I've heard since Mother Love.

But hey... no pleasing everyone. If all I've ever really heard of him was Let's Dance and the big 80s hits, I'd probably agree with you. :?
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby musicalprostitute » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:01 pm

Sir Didymus wrote:
Indeed. But the issue I had was with the initial phrasing of your taste as something closer to fact rather than opinion.

I personally find it incredibly hard to understand how anyone could legitimately say he was 'dull' with 'zero feeling', particularly in later life, when his work was so full of emotional resonance it'd make me cry before he died, let alone now. Have you heard 'Bring Me The Disco King', for example? Or 'I'm Afraid Of Americans'? 'Slip Away'? At the very least, listen to some of the last pieces he recorded: there's a track called 'Killing A Little Time' where he's raging against the disease that's destroying him, and it's *THE* most amazing thing I've heard since Mother Love.

But hey... no pleasing everyone. If all I've ever really heard of him was Let's Dance and the big 80s hits, I'd probably agree with you. :?


Well, I will have to respectfully disagree with you on this: I don't think I phrased any sentence to make it sound like what I was stating was a fact and not just my own opinion - but we could argue the toss about that crap forever....

I confess, I have not heard all of his last recordings (apart from a couple - which I really liked); but I have heard virtually his entire catalogue and never felt - not for one moment - that he sung with true emotion. OK, there are a few tracks in which I feel he sings with some warmth, etc. but the majority of his songs, for me, lack any raw emotion at all. I think he was an average singer at best.

However, I shall take a listen to the track you recommended and see what I think. I am very open-minded when it comes to music and musicians (I am far from a music snob and adore many genres from many eclectic artists), so it is not as if I simply dismiss singers/musicians over a song or two - I always listen to a substantial chunk of their output before I really make up my mind and Bowie's vocals just never did it for me. Saying that, I adore the man and what he gave to the music world - you will hear nothing but respect for him from me.
 
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Deacon John » Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:11 pm

Well Ratty has been interviewed about the “Under Pressure” recording sessions for an upcoming Bowie book, and has said they “performed some original songs they did together and also covers. They were just jamming in the studio and it all got recorded – All the Young Dudes, All the Way from Memphis and various rock classics”.

“They just started knocking things around… They came back the next day and then recorded what eventually became Under Pressure.”

“But there were other things recorded during that period, which were never finished or mixed. David did vocals on some of the other tracks which ended up not being used.”

“I was in the studio with them. It was all quite spontaneous. Certainly, there were other tracks recorded with Queen and Bowie, and Freddie singing, which were never released. Pretty raw, but original material definitely.”

“I can categorically say I know that there were complete tracks, not mixed tracks, but fully formed songs that were done.”

The full Guardian article is here:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jul/13/david-bowie-recorded-songs-with-queen-that-never-got-released

Ratty states “so somewhere there is an archive”, but even if his recollections are correct, and even if the tapes do survive, I think seeing them released would be a long shot.

It would be interesting to see what Brian, Roger or Mack have to say on the subject.
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby musicalprostitute » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:11 pm

Deacon John wrote:Well Ratty has been interviewed about the “Under Pressure” recording sessions for an upcoming Bowie book, and has said they “performed some original songs they did together and also covers. They were just jamming in the studio and it all got recorded – All the Young Dudes, All the Way from Memphis and various rock classics”.

“They just started knocking things around… They came back the next day and then recorded what eventually became Under Pressure.”

“But there were other things recorded during that period, which were never finished or mixed. David did vocals on some of the other tracks which ended up not being used.”

“I was in the studio with them. It was all quite spontaneous. Certainly, there were other tracks recorded with Queen and Bowie, and Freddie singing, which were never released. Pretty raw, but original material definitely.”

“I can categorically say I know that there were complete tracks, not mixed tracks, but fully formed songs that were done.”

The full Guardian article is here:
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/jul/13/david-bowie-recorded-songs-with-queen-that-never-got-released

Ratty states “so somewhere there is an archive”, but even if his recollections are correct, and even if the tapes do survive, I think seeing them released would be a long shot.

It would be interesting to see what Brian, Roger or Mack have to say on the subject.


Fascinating stuff!

I, for one, would love to hear some of this stuff: I do not care if it includes covers of each other's songs and covers of other rock classics - it would still excite me greatly to hear some of this. Of course, this being Queen we probably will hear fuck all...

...but maybe we will all get a treat. Maybe.
 
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby musicalprostitute » Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:34 pm

Sir Didymus wrote:


I personally find it incredibly hard to understand how anyone could legitimately say he was 'dull' with 'zero feeling', particularly in later life, when his work was so full of emotional resonance it'd make me cry before he died, let alone now. Have you heard 'Bring Me The Disco King', for example? Or 'I'm Afraid Of Americans'? 'Slip Away'? At the very least, listen to some of the last pieces he recorded: there's a track called 'Killing A Little Time' where he's raging against the disease that's destroying him, and it's *THE* most amazing thing I've heard since Mother Love.



Ok, so I listened to Killing A Little time, as you suggested; and, if I am totally honest, I have to say it did nothing for me (and I personally would not put it anywhere near Mother Love). Saying that, I am going to hold my hands up here and admit that I was probably a little harsh with regards to saying he had no emotion in his vocals: there is emotion there, but it is just I find his vocals lacking something that touches me - I think that is a fairer thing to say in truth.

I have just listened to Blackstar again for the first time in months and that song is definitely becoming one of my favourite Bowie tracks ever: it is dark, magical, other-worldly (just as David was) and creates such an atmosphere that I think it is quite genius.
 
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Hangman » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:09 am

I hope these Queen & David Bowie tracks see the light of day. They could release an EP of the entire studio session including original material and covers all on one CD/Vinyl. It sounds like all they need to do is master the tracks, touch some bits up and perhaps remaster them and it would make a lot of Queen and David Bowie fans happy.
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Capt. Den Ronson » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:28 pm

This is old news. There are at least 3 other Queen/Bowie collaborations.They even have titles; I posted them on this very site in 2010, a year after they were 'revealed'.
 
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Capt. Den Ronson » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:30 pm

The Milkman wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:Hmmm...I suspect there is more than just the Bowie version of Cool Cat (dreadful fucking song). We shall see.

Talking about Bowie, although I love the man and respect what he added to the music world (and was devastated when he passed), I do think he is somewhat over-rated - I find his lyrics average at best and his vocals lacking any real emotion or raw power. Still love the man and acknowledge what he has given the rest of the world but just do not think he is as great as many believe.


I like a lot of his lyrics but for the most part I agree with you.


You changed your tune.
 
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby The Milkman » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:34 pm

Capt. Den Ronson wrote:
The Milkman wrote:
I like a lot of his lyrics but for the most part I agree with you.


You changed your tune.



Nah, he's a legend and I own almost all of his albums but I do think he's a little overrated.
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Capt. Den Ronson » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:37 pm

The Milkman wrote:
Capt. Den Ronson wrote:
The Milkman wrote:
I like a lot of his lyrics but for the most part I agree with you.


You changed your tune.



Nah, he's a legend and I own almost all of his albums but I do think he's a little overrated.


Overrated by whom? What does that even mean? Legend? Not sure I follow.
 
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby The Milkman » Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:50 pm

Capt. Den Ronson wrote:
Overrated by whom? What does that even mean? Legend? Not sure I follow.


I just don't rate him as highly as most of the music critics do. Sure he made some great albums and he took a lot of chances but he has his share of duds as well. He did a lot for music and he ended his career with a brilliant album.
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Capt. Den Ronson » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:05 pm

The Milkman wrote:
Capt. Den Ronson wrote:
Overrated by whom? What does that even mean? Legend? Not sure I follow.


I just don't rate him as highly as most of the music critics do. Sure he made some great albums and he took a lot of chances but he has his share of duds as well. He did a lot for music and he ended his career with a brilliant album.


Not sure I've ever seen praise heaped on the 1983-2001 recordings or the tours and set-lists from most of that period. I think you're misremembering things.
 
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby The Milkman » Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:17 pm

Capt. Den Ronson wrote:
The Milkman wrote:
Capt. Den Ronson wrote:
Overrated by whom? What does that even mean? Legend? Not sure I follow.


I just don't rate him as highly as most of the music critics do. Sure he made some great albums and he took a lot of chances but he has his share of duds as well. He did a lot for music and he ended his career with a brilliant album.


Not sure I've ever seen praise heaped on the 1983-2001 recordings or the tours and set-lists from most of that period. I think you're misremembering things.


This is true!
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Peace Loving Guy » Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:00 am

I saw Bowie on his final tour in 2004(?). Very good, eclectic, well received show, and the guy had a genuinely humble, self deprecating vibe that underscored his extraordinary talent. Of all the hits and obscure tracks he did, the biggest cheer he got by a mile was when he did a song he introduced by saying "this is a song I wrote with Freddie Mercury in 1980" and then the bass line started up his his audience went nuts.

I think what he and Freddie had in common was that they understood that they could play the persona of rock stars, like Elvis, without feeling deep down that they ever were "Bowie" or 'Mercury". The difference between them was that Freddie was genuinely an amazing singer, whereas David Bowie only ever really wanted to play the saxaphone and he basically "faked" being a singer.

Regarding Bowie's emotional "distance"? "Paucity"? "Detachment"? It's used with great irony on the album Station to Station, just like it is by Queen on News of the World. Songs like We Are The Champions and Get Down Make love are cold as hell on that album. Unlike it's big show stopping live vocal ending, those final unsung bars on the recorded version of We Are The Champions are very dark, cold and potent.
 
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Re: Ahhh. So there IS more to the Queen + Bowie collaborat

Postby Wild/Wind » Fri Aug 11, 2017 3:20 pm

If I remember correctly David Bowie wanted to release a 20minutes of ideas and jamming during Under Pressure instead of. the under pressure single. Which it came from the mixing of the jamming session.
 
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