Deacon/Mercury

Serious discussion about the band known as QUEEN.

Deacon/Mercury

Postby Kit » Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:24 pm

Anyone throw any light on their relationship? Did Freddie stick up for John in studio sessions as I've read?

I'm sure I remember reading in Queen - As it began that John went AWOL during the recording of Innuendo, could this have been due to the difficulty of seeing Freddie in a bad way?
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby 1sharppencil » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:18 pm

a few facts I'm sure 90% of ppl who read this forum 'ready know:
- Freddie was the one pushing John to contribute, from the start.
- Freddie and John listened more to the same kind of music, they both loved black music, they worked harmoniously in the studio.
- Freddie, as Brian has stated on numerous occasions, worked his ass off on John's songs, giving him the "voice" he lacked
- The co-writes on AKOM only came about because John respected and acknowledged Fred's contributions to his songs, lyrically and musically.
-I am under the impression he was the one most hurt by Fred's passing, despite the habit of fucking off to holidays/skiing (the "one vision" documentary is proof enough)
it's so easy...
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby sebastian » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:23 pm

They were all close to each other as a musical unit. Sometimes they did pull in different directions and everything, but it doesn't mean Queen were Maylor vs Jeddie.

As reported via Fan Club magazines, John often took French holidays during both Miracle and Innuendo sessions. After all, he was the one who participated the least in those albums: he was there for backing track stages (as bass was often laid down simultaneously with drums and either guitar or keys), and then maybe for an odd mixing or overdubbing session for his own material (where he usually played synths and/or guitar), but that was it.

A lot of the work on both albums consisted of guitar overdubs (done by Brian almost entirely - save for the famous Steve Howe bit), keyboard overdubs (done mainly [not entirely] by Freddie, Brian and David Richards), vocal overdubs (done by Freddie, Brian and Roger) and mixing, which was done by the person who'd written the song. As per usual, Freddie was the dominant songwriter and thus more involved than the others in that stage; Brian also contributed several tracks, and Roger a couple. John - not so much.
John hated Hot Space. Frederick's favourite singer was not Paul Rodgers. Roger did not compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby 1sharppencil » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:25 pm

Sebastian, one word, "Hot Space" :D
it's so easy...
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby sebastian » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:30 pm

John hated Hot Space.
John hated Hot Space. Frederick's favourite singer was not Paul Rodgers. Roger did not compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby fosterol » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:38 pm

sebastian wrote:John hated Hot Space.


i wonder why the thing happened then..brian didnt like it roger didnt like it..wa this a freddie project..i am surprised john didnt like it more than he did.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby 1sharppencil » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:38 pm

He hated the end result, can't blame him. Musically it was Fred and John's triumph...
it's so easy...
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby eiricd » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:39 pm

1sharppencil wrote:Sebastian, one word, "Hot Space" :D


2, surely? :P
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby 1sharppencil » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:40 pm

Funny...NOT! :cool:
it's so easy...
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby Kit » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:46 pm

Going off topic, the thing is when you listen to Hot Space it's actually really creative, it's not like its a half arsed album from a band on the wane, it's vibrant and full of energy.......and I like it! Have to admit though if I'd been around when it was released I would have been worried that this was a new direction, rather than as we know now, a bit of an experiment.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby sebastian » Fri Aug 19, 2011 8:58 pm

fosterol wrote:i wonder why the thing happened then..brian didnt like it roger didnt like it..wa this a freddie project..i am surprised john didnt like it more than he did.


Roger didn't like it, but Brian did. It's not his favourite album or anything, but he's always defended it, even going to ridiculous lengths as to claiming that without it there'd have been no Thriller.

1sharppencil wrote:He hated the end result, can't blame him. Musically it was Fred and John's triumph...


No, it wasn't: 86.36% of the album was NOT written by John.

All songs feature Freddie on vocals, and several also have him on piano or synths.

All songs feature Roger on drums, sometimes taking turns with drum machines programmed by the author of the song, but Roger's still present, in ALL of the album tracks.

All songs except for one feature Brian on guitar, and several also have him on BV's, piano, synths or drum machines.

Conversely, three (or maybe even four) songs are done WITHOUT John's bass.

Fred's triumph? Yes.
John's? Not at all.
John hated Hot Space. Frederick's favourite singer was not Paul Rodgers. Roger did not compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby fosterol » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:26 pm

Kit wrote:Going off topic, the thing is when you listen to Hot Space it's actually really creative, it's not like its a half arsed album from a band on the wane, it's vibrant and full of energy.......and I like it! Have to admit though if I'd been around when it was released I would have been worried that this was a new direction, rather than as we know now, a bit of an experiment.


i remember when it came out and i adored las palabras de amor and just played the b side of hot space but couldnt get my head round a side.. as it was queen album was determined to like it and defended it to all who would insult it, though privately wasnt mad keen
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby Frank » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:30 pm

Interesting comments, Sebastian. I was aware that John's bass was absent in a few tracks, but didn't realize that it was as many as three or four. Quite depressing for a funk/rock album actually, isn't it? But anyway, it's quite obvious that John and Freddie were very close and supportive of one another (not to say that all four didn't support each other though). But I recall a Christmas 1976 interview with Kenny Everett where Freddie praised John's accomplishments as far as songwriting is concerned. He noted his talent for being that secret weapon in the group. And he really, really was. Sadly though, he is also the most underrated and least understood member of Queen. I wish we knew more about him. What I do know is that he seemed very sweet and sincere.

Case in point:



And he obviously loves to spend quality time with his family, which explains for his frequent absence in the studio in the later years.
Last edited by Frank on Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby Kit » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:32 pm

fosterol wrote:
Kit wrote:Going off topic, the thing is when you listen to Hot Space it's actually really creative, it's not like its a half arsed album from a band on the wane, it's vibrant and full of energy.......and I like it! Have to admit though if I'd been around when it was released I would have been worried that this was a new direction, rather than as we know now, a bit of an experiment.


i remember when it came out and i adored las palabras de amor and just played the b side of hot space but couldnt get my head round a side.. as it was queen album was determined to like it and defended it to all who would insult it, though privately wasnt mad keen


Was it a shock fosterol? Did people know it was going to be a new 'sound' before it came out? Were people generally really scornful about it?
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby sebastian » Fri Aug 19, 2011 9:59 pm

fosterol wrote:i remember when it came out and i adored las palabras de amor and just played the b side of hot space but couldnt get my head round a side


It might have been their compromise to begin with: the B-Side's got no synth bass and all drums are real. Side-A ... no comments.

Steven wrote:I was aware that John's bass was absent in a few tracks, but didn't realize that it was as many as three or four.


Although you didn't ask, I'll elaborate:

Staying Power has synth-bass instead of real bass. John played guitar on that one.

Dancer has synth-bass instead of real bass. John didn't participate on that track.

Body Language (the album's lead single, BTW) has synth-bass instead of real bass. John didn't participate on that track, although he's on the video (the same thing happened on WWTLF, and with Roger on Break Free).

The mysterious fourth is possibly Action This Day: the basic track was a programmed looped of drum machines, and it's not a stretch to think Roger may have added both bass and rhythm guitar over it. They're simple patterns anyway. Maybe John did play them ... almost impossible to know ATM.

Steven wrote:Quite depressing for a funk/rock album actually, isn't it?


And maybe that's the reason why John hated the album: being into funk/black music himself, he may have been more critical of it (I'm sure LOADS of Queen fans will absolutely LOATHE Freddie's biopic as they [we] will find inaccuracies and omissions that others will overlook) and maybe (and that's entirely speculation on my part) he felt Freddie, Brian and Roger were doing it 'wrong' with their own funky efforts (which, together with the non-funk components, make up for 86.36% of the album).

I'm like that in a way: I adore a cappella choral music, for instance, but it doesn't mean I automatically love ANY choir I listen to or any vocal album I get. On the contrary: I'm more meticulous and detect mistakes more easily, and get more annoyed by them. I may even go as far as 'hating' a sub-par choir that others would readily praise, as I detect the subtle changes in arrangement or dynamics.

Steven wrote:I recall a Christmas 1976 interview with Kenny Everett where Freddie praised John's accomplishments as far as songwriting is concerned. He noted his talent for being that secret weapon in the group.


Yes, of course, but Freddie also recognised and acknowledged Brian's and Roger's songwriting talents. Remember how much he praised Prophet's Song when he introduced it on stage, how much he worked his arse off to add ideas to Radio Ga Ga and A Kind of Magic (and he did NOT demand to be included on the credits, something a lot of rock stars tend to do even if they only contribute a single word or note), how happy he was on singing Show Must Go On, how much he loved Heaven for Everyone and insisted on singing it, etc.

Freddie was just as supportive and appreciative of Drowse and Teo Torriatte as he was of You and I or Best Friend.

Steven wrote:And he obviously loves to spend quality time with his family, which explains for his frequent absence in the studio in the later years.


However, that point tends to be exaggerated sometimes. He did work a lot on those albums, and while he sometimes took leaves, the others did too (Brian for his solo work, Roger for his other band, Freddie ... was dying).
John hated Hot Space. Frederick's favourite singer was not Paul Rodgers. Roger did not compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
 
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