Deacon/Mercury

Serious discussion about the band known as QUEEN.

Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby HoopDiddyDiddy » Tue Aug 19, 2014 12:53 pm

This is a wonderful thread which I very much enjoyed reading, so thank you to everyone who contributed.

I have no inside knowledge of anything, but do feel compelled to comment on all of the speculation as regards the "why" of JD no longer participating.
I feel it pretty safe to speculate that there was no one "reason" but instead a combination of everything that had transpired to the point of his no longer wishing to remain active in a public manner.
People are complicated animals- our decisions are very rarely the result of logical thought. We act as we feel we must- very often even we ourselves have no idea why we feel as we do. Our actions are the result of the cumulative events of our life coming together to shape our thoughts.

And, as with any of us, my thoughts are of course colored by my own life experiences.
It cannot be any other way.

I worked with the same group of five people for 20+ years, some of whom I got along with very well and others less so.

One of us died a slow, lingering death towards the end of my tenure- right about the time I left the job. In fact, the last time I saw her was the day she learned that there was no hope. It affected all of us deeply. I did not feel the need to "say goodbye" as she lay dying- our friendship stood on its own merits and did not require such a formal bit of closure. Our bond existed, it still exists- we both knew that. We were in each others hearts.

Throughout the decades of our association there were days we all got along famously and other days we tolerated being in the same room together. Sometimes A and B fought with C, D, and E and other times A and E disagreed with B, C, and D. Sometimes everyone hated D! There were times I may have socialized a bit with this one and not that one, then ten years later spent more time with a different person. People change, they go through stages, and not everyone "evolves" (for lack of a better word) at the same pace. Interests and directions come and go, and as a result our dynamic was very fluid over the years.

Once I decided that I no longer wanted to be part of that world and retired, I found other interests to fill my days. So I no longer keep in touch with any of these remaining people. Even though we spent huge amounts of time together, traveled together, held hands through death, divorces, births, and remarriages, and at times lived up each others asses in great camaraderie, those times are over. I don't do chit chat, I don't attend reunions, and I don't follow their lives at all. With the job no longer a factor I have nothing in common with these people.
That doesn't mean we had a falling out, or don't like each other, or the pain of losing my co-worker was to great to carry on.
It just means that those times are over.

There were many, many times one or another of us tossed out some snark, a joke, a bit of snappy repartee- something that if overheard by someone else or quoted ten years after the fact would most certainly be misinterpreted. One unfamiliar with our personalities and styles of interacting would simply not get it. Often the jibes contained a hint of truth, other times were just people trying to be funny. Not every word said is serious or deserves too much focus.
We laughed and moved on and the comment faded away into the ether- God help us if every comment had been parsed and dissected obsessively by strangers. 99% of the time those comments simply weren't that significant and were certainly not representative of the totality of our group dynamic.

So while all this speculation is fun in an almost voyeuristic sort of way, I doubt any conclusions reached have much validity. We will simply never know.
Even if the remaining three had a public group kumbaya a la Metallica's "Some Kind of Monster" we would still lack 25% of the story. None of those remaining have the ability to view (much less speak of) past events in a 100% objective manner- it just isn't part of being human. We all see life through our own eyes.

One of the things I like most about the band is the way they managed to keep their disagreements and differences out of the public eye. That we are still speculating about their differences in this manner so long after the fact proves how little we really know.

Would I love JD to write a book?
Absolutely!
I often think of putting pen to paper (or fingers to keyboard) to chronicle my past. But as it stands my now is more important to me and, time being fleeting, I choose to spend my time in my now rather than in looking back. That doesn't mean that I don't remember those times fondly, or wish everyone remaining a long and fulfilling life. Nor does it mean I have insurmountable disagreements with any of them. There is no one "big bad" reason- I have simply moved on.
I have other, newer, and more interesting ways to fill my time. It's not a big deal, it's just the way I feel.

I'm going in no particular direction with this- I just read a great thread and, despite it's being very old, felt the need to toss in my two cents.

Again, thanks to everyone who offered up their thoughts.
Last edited by HoopDiddyDiddy on Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby nicksmithworld » Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:00 pm

sebastian wrote:
So there you have it: it wasn't Jeddie vs Maylor, it was Freddie vs Mayconlor.


Wow, imagine a fight between Mayconlor and Gigantor! I'd pay to see that movie..the winner goes on to fight Godzilla :-|
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby Kes » Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:23 pm

I think it's probably nothing more than John believing that Freddie made his songs "happen".

You don't really need to look any further than the fact he had a pretty much non existent solo career, and hasn't written anything for anybody else, either.
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby manucar81 » Wed Aug 20, 2014 2:11 pm

HoopDiddyDiddy, excellent reflection, after reading it somehow it made me think that John may have been under the same situation you talked about.

However, John's situation is slightly different from yours in the sense that there are many fans out there wanting him to say a word or simply see him. Of course he is in his right to not make any public appearance or say anything, but we do still want him to appear somehow somewhere.

And yes, this DEACON/MERCURY post is asbolutely great, one of the best posts from this forum! :-)
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby HoopDiddyDiddy » Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:34 am

manucar81 wrote:However, John's situation is slightly different from yours in the sense that there are many fans out there wanting him to say a word or simply see him. Of course he is in his right to not make any public appearance or say anything, but we do still want him to appear somehow somewhere.

Well, fan entitlement is a big bugaboo of mine- what fans want is, in many cases, irrelevant. Especially when the subject of their wants has retired and made it very clear of an intent to remain so and undoubtedly wants not to appear.
To me it is very apparent that he's given all he is able to give.

Not to be overly critical those who want more- it is after all human nature.
But all a fan is entitled to from a musician is music- everything else is icing on the cake. When they retire and no longer release music their responsibility is done. If he enjoyed appearances it would be different, but he quite obviously does not.
As you said, this is his right.

Now we'll hear "But it wouldn't kill him to wave at a camera."
You know- maybe it would. Maybe he is so thoroughly sick of the whole business that he cannot bring himself to make even the tiniest acknowledgement to his fandom.
I think that's ok- we have to let go.
It's a bit similar to artists who die young- those that simply disappear seem to gain such a mythological status that we focus inordinately on their absence and ascribe so much importance to even the smallest of glimpses.
To what end?
Really- what would a glimpse and a wave give you that you do not already have?

I would only say "Thanks John for the two decades of music and performances you have given us and thank God we have recordings to preserve the magic you created. You have enriched my life beyond belief and for this I will be forever grateful. I wish you a long and fulfilling life in whatever manner makes you happy."

Because I already am.
I already have the best of him on my CD's, my iPod, in my car, and in my heart.
I don't need anything more.
And wanting to see him or thank him or show him love is about our needs, not his.
And I for one don't think it should be about us, not any more.
For me, in this case, his needs trump ours.
And for whatever reason/s, he needs not to appear so I have to accept that.

All I can do is go listen to "Spread Your Wings" and thank God he existed in the first place.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby Two sharp pencils » Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:37 pm

I feel quite blessed to have met him in '83 at the Ga ga video shoot. Although he came over as quite quiet I did get a feeling that he was in a happy place at the time.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby jimbo » Sat Aug 23, 2014 9:09 pm

HoopDiddyDiddy wrote:
manucar81 wrote:However, John's situation is slightly different from yours in the sense that there are many fans out there wanting him to say a word or simply see him. Of course he is in his right to not make any public appearance or say anything, but we do still want him to appear somehow somewhere.

Well, fan entitlement is a big bugaboo of mine- what fans want is, in many cases, irrelevant. Especially when the subject of their wants has retired and made it very clear of an intent to remain so and undoubtedly wants not to appear.
To me it is very apparent that he's given all he is able to give.

Not to be overly critical those who want more- it is after all human nature.
But all a fan is entitled to from a musician is music- everything else is icing on the cake. When they retire and no longer release music their responsibility is done. If he enjoyed appearances it would be different, but he quite obviously does not.
As you said, this is his right.

Now we'll hear "But it wouldn't kill him to wave at a camera."
You know- maybe it would. Maybe he is so thoroughly sick of the whole business that he cannot bring himself to make even the tiniest acknowledgement to his fandom.
I think that's ok- we have to let go.
It's a bit similar to artists who die young- those that simply disappear seem to gain such a mythological status that we focus inordinately on their absence and ascribe so much importance to even the smallest of glimpses.
To what end?
Really- what would a glimpse and a wave give you that you do not already have?

I would only say "Thanks John for the two decades of music and performances you have given us and thank God we have recordings to preserve the magic you created. You have enriched my life beyond belief and for this I will be forever grateful. I wish you a long and fulfilling life in whatever manner makes you happy."

Because I already am.
I already have the best of him on my CD's, my iPod, in my car, and in my heart.
I don't need anything more.
And wanting to see him or thank him or show him love is about our needs, not his.
And I for one don't think it should be about us, not any more.
For me, in this case, his needs trump ours.
And for whatever reason/s, he needs not to appear so I have to accept that.

All I can do is go listen to "Spread Your Wings" and thank God he existed in the first place.


Great post :-D
Hot Space is actually only my 6th favourite Queen album.
(But is a very underrated album in my opinion).
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby CoolCat27 » Sat Aug 23, 2014 11:18 pm

John contributed a decent amount to The Miracle. Seems like he was in big on at least four tracks, most being collaborations with Freddie. I kind of always thought Don't Try So Hard was a John track. It's surprising to me that he wasn't the lead on any of the Innuendo tracks. Was he just burned out of being in the band at this point? Or was it him taking Freddie's impending demise really hard?

I'd bet it was him having a hard time with Freddie's illness. They were terrific partners as songwriters. To know you're going to lose someone that was such a huge part of your professional success not to mention a friend for more than 15 years...yeah, that would be a blow.

It's kind of too bad that John's lead songwriting went away at the time of Innuendo with Roger and Brian and Freddie really coming through with some kick-ass tracks. Imagine if John had a few of his patented gems on Innuendo as well that could have taken the place of The Hitman and Delilah.

I agree with what that one person said. As much as I'd love to hear from John today, he doesn't owe us anything. He gave us Spread Your Wings, Misfire, You're My Best Friend, I Want To Break Free, and so much more. He gave us a heckuva lot.
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby jayw » Mon Aug 25, 2014 5:35 pm

CoolCat27 wrote:. Imagine if John had a few of his patented gems on Innuendo as well that could have taken the place of The Hitman and Delilah.



hey...I happen to very much enjoy Delilah, but your point is well taken.

I wish John would surface, & I rather wish he would collaborate with B & R (alone)

It would be such a kick to hear from him or see him, either in written word or interview, but that's not going to happen.

At any rate, I respect his not going forward as any part of "Queen"

There really is some comfort in his not participating.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby Niall » Thu Oct 16, 2014 11:59 am

Sir Knute wrote:I get the impression that Brian was indeed a tense sometimes very difficult dude to work with.

During the Live Aid rehearsal interview, there's a moment where Roger kinda cuts off Brian and Brian makes this really annoyed face like he's thinking he'd like to choke the shit out of Roger. :lol:
And they allude to the recent rows over what songs to play in the short Live Aid setlist.
I'm willing to bet the argument was over Hammer to Fall. Because the directive from Geldof was that bands had to play hits only.
Brian probably had other ideas and was adamant about HTF because he felt it was appropriate for the event with it's world in peril theme. Maybe I'm wrong but HTF wasn't a hit record in the classic sense right?

Yeah I bet that was the source of the tension. Brian holding his ground and the others giving him shit about it.

Remember Freddie during the recording of One Vision? 'I'll bet there's a fight over that. It sounds like he's (Brian) just marking time.' And John agreeing as he scratched his leg.
Body Language, huh, huh.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby sebastian » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:47 am

CoolCat27 wrote:They were terrific partners as songwriters.


But so were other combinations. Fred collaborated a lot with Rog (Ga Ga, Magic, Innuendo, Breakthru') and Brian (Is This the World We Created, Bijou, Was It All Worth It, The Hitman, The Show Must Go On, Mother Love). The point is, while not diminishing the importance and success of Jeddie as a songwriting partnership, it doesn't make them any more special than Maycury or Fredger.
John hated Hot Space. Frederick's favourite singer was not Paul Rodgers. Roger did not compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby sebastian » Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:24 pm

Bumped.

Edit: By the way: https://youtu.be/gzOt2VGUAlk?t=8m12s There, crystal clear: John didn't like it. Source: John himself.
John hated Hot Space. Frederick's favourite singer was not Paul Rodgers. Roger did not compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby Pingu » Thu Aug 11, 2016 10:46 am

Pingu wrote:
sebastian wrote:
Pingu wrote:"Friends.." was a Freddie song, helped by John. "Pain..." is a John song, helped by Freddie. Source is a contemporary interview with Brian May released on a cassette called "Message from the Palace" (And he's quite precise about it).


Actually, he didn't say PISCTP was John's. He said, and I quote, 'There's a song called "Pain Is So Close To Pleasure" which I started off, and I think again John and Freddie worked together on it. That's really sort of a motown sounding track, very unusual for us.' At no point whatsoever he said or implied John had been its main writer and Freddie 'just' a helper.

For FWBF, he said, and I quote: 'Freddie's written a song called "Friends Will be Friends", and I think Freddie and John worked on it together. It's something which I took to heart very much as well because it's kind of traditional Queen sound. It has this... If you can remember "We are The Champions" or "Play The Game", it's in that kind of mould, it has all the Queen trademarks. And yet it's a new song and a new idea, and that's something I instantly related to. Very nice, very good track. It sounds very complete.'



Fair do's- I misremembered the PISCTP quote there. I do think Brian is also on (soapbox) record as saying Fred wrote the FWBF lyric.


Well, if we're bumping, let's be at least retrospectively accurate shall we.

'There's a song called "Pain Is So Close To Pleasure" which I started off'...

No. Brian says 'There's a song called "Pain Is So Close To Pleasure" which JOHN started off".

Just thought I'd clear that up. :)
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby sebastian » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:06 am

Actually, that'd make a lot more sense.

Source?
John hated Hot Space. Frederick's favourite singer was not Paul Rodgers. Roger did not compose 'Innuendo.' Witness testimonies are often inaccurate. Scotland's not in England. 'Bo Rhap' hasn't got 180 voices.
 
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Re: Deacon/Mercury

Postby Pingu » Thu Aug 11, 2016 11:33 am

sebastian wrote:Actually, that'd make a lot more sense.

Source?


It's the Brian May interview released as "A Message from the Palace". Great for AKOM era contemporary titbits :)
 
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