Presidents of the United States

Other music, TV, films and general interest
User avatar
Innuendoes
Posts: 2846
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:32 pm
Location: Never be lonely, lost in the night, Just run from the darkness, lookin' for the light.

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Innuendoes »

Starman wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:44 am
Innuendoes wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:19 am Over here, 10,000ft is tree line. I love being at tree line and not so much above that because I start getting vertigo from the view with nothing between me and the sky or the ground, lol. No one who is used to 5000-8000 ft above sea level should have trouble with 10,000 ft unless they have a severe heart or lung issue, if even the n. Of course if they were exerting themselves or riding a bicycle at that altitude, maybe someone with heart disease would have problems but not someone who is used to it and fairly healthy.

Pike's Peak, for instance, is over 14,000 ft altitude. People hike up that every day. I stayed at 11,000ft, though. I looked up and got vertigo and said forget it.

But, Kes is right. Plus just the PSI, I think is what I am thinking of, would make it impossible to hold on.
I just posted a link to a story about a man who literally did survive a 10 hour flight clinging to the wheel, but believe what you prefer to believe I guess. Given that his friend died and he lost a leg, it’s clearly a high risk strategy but not one that makes death absolutely inevitable.

Agreed re heart and lung disease - I’d also add anaemia to that.
I read the article, BTW. I am agreeing with him on the 32,000 ft. I don't think anyone can survive that for very long. Qatar isn't THAT far compared to the man in the article you posted but still, depends on many things - the health of the person or persons, the air speed, altitude and all that. I also don't know how high each plane flies. When I was flying back and forth from St Louis to Tulsa and back I am pretty sure we weren't at 32,000 ft but maybe I'm wrong. I just don't see how all planes in the sky are at the same altitude at the same time. But, again, I really don't know. I know you've been up there nearly that high and made it ok, though.

Just a quick question... what's the air pressure from wind like up there on that mountain? Wind gusts? Normal wind speed? Blah blah blah. LOL.

User avatar
Kes
Moderator
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Kes »

They had a guy during the war, who jumped out of a stricken Lancaster at 10,000 ft. No parachute, he survived.

How many people out of a hundred, who tried that, would survive it? Worth a chance? Obviously if certain death is the only alternative. One in a million, is better odds than none at all.

So, are the Taliban going to kill everyone who isn't a fully signed up with subscriptions member?

I think in terms of playing Russian roulette, somehow, you'd stand a better chance of the Taliban not identifying you, or finding you, than playing Flight of the Phoenix with an otherwise fully functioning high altitude transport aircraft.

Starman
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Starman »

To be honest I think the main variable that can’t be predicted unless you have in depth knowledge of aeroplanes is the sheer mechanical risks involved. I’d have thought that clinging to the wheel as the plane touches down puts you at huge risk (the guy broke his leg).

Air pressure is lower up there than at sea level - that’s why oxygenation is an issue. I doubt the wind is much of a threat, especially if you’re relatively sheltered within the structure of the wheel. Wouldn’t be much fun in a storm though - and presumably you’d be at high risk of getting stuck by lightning, clinging to the outside of what is essentially a massive Faraday cage??

But again, people go hang gliding at high altitudes for hours at a time and are essentially okay, although this guy (who I have met) nearly died:

https://www.wefornews.com/indian-army-r ... ragliding/

User avatar
Innuendoes
Posts: 2846
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:32 pm
Location: Never be lonely, lost in the night, Just run from the darkness, lookin' for the light.

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Innuendoes »

There are 40,000 Americans stranded in Kabul right now. Our government says they are going to try to rescue 5000 a day. Try... And I'm not even sure if that's 5,000 Americans or 5,000 people, no matter what nationality.

I don't really know anything about this news source.

Taliban kill woman for not wearing burqa on same day they vow to honor women’s rights
https://nypost.com/2021/08/17/taliban-k ... ns-rights/

User avatar
Kes
Moderator
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Kes »

People who climb Everest take days to get there.

Helicopters generally aren't pressurised, but you can bet they either have oxygen, or a positive pressure breathing system, if they're going to travel a max differential pressure of more than about six psi.

Cabin altitude on passenger jets is about 8 psi maximum pressure differential between ambient, and itself, so if the ambient is 6.5 psi, or above, the aircraft shouldn't have a structural failure. Lear jets and the such, have much higher ceilings, so the max diff is higher.

User avatar
Innuendoes
Posts: 2846
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:32 pm
Location: Never be lonely, lost in the night, Just run from the darkness, lookin' for the light.

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Innuendoes »

Starman wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:42 pm To be honest I think the main variable that can’t be predicted unless you have in depth knowledge of aeroplanes is the sheer mechanical risks involved. I’d have thought that clinging to the wheel as the plane touches down puts you at huge risk (the guy broke his leg).

Air pressure is lower up there than at sea level - that’s why oxygenation is an issue. I doubt the wind is much of a threat, especially if you’re relatively sheltered within the structure of the wheel. Wouldn’t be much fun in a storm though - and presumably you’d be at high risk of getting stuck by lightning, clinging to the outside of what is essentially a massive Faraday cage??

But again, people go hang gliding at high altitudes for hours at a time and are essentially okay, although this guy (who I have met) nearly died:

https://www.wefornews.com/indian-army-r ... ragliding/
I know about the air pressure being lower, the higher you go. I lived in Denver for half a year. Denver is 1 mile above sea level or 5,280ft.

The article says "15,000 feet from the ground level". How high above sea level is the "ground" level, there where this man got stuck?

User avatar
Kes
Moderator
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Kes »

The big problem you have with stowing away in an undercarriage bay, is that it's big enough for a hydraulically powered undercarriage. Unless you can figure exactly where it's going when it retracts, you have 1800 pounds per square inch of pressure putting it where it lives, you don't want to get in it's way, or it won't be the air pressure, lack of oxygen, extreme cold, or airspeed that kills you. Same thing applies when the gear extends, as that's more often than not when the frozen bodies hit the ground.

Starman
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Starman »

Kes wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:47 pm People who climb Everest take days to get there.

Helicopters generally aren't pressurised, but you can bet they either have oxygen, or a positive pressure breathing system, if they're going to travel a max differential pressure of more than about six psi.

Cabin altitude on passenger jets is about 8 psi maximum pressure differential between ambient, and itself, so if the ambient is 6.5 psi, or above, the aircraft shouldn't have a structural failure. Lear jets and the such, have much higher ceilings, so the max diff is higher.

Yeah, all accepted.

I think the helicopter rescue guy is also a high altitude mountaineer, so he probably stays acclimatised during the rescue season.

Basically if you modify your threshold for incompatibility with life from 10,000ft to 30,000ft we’re in complete agreement, and I’d also agree that going straight to 15,000ft from sea level is risky.

Starman
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Starman »

Innuendoes wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:51 pm
Starman wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:42 pm To be honest I think the main variable that can’t be predicted unless you have in depth knowledge of aeroplanes is the sheer mechanical risks involved. I’d have thought that clinging to the wheel as the plane touches down puts you at huge risk (the guy broke his leg).

Air pressure is lower up there than at sea level - that’s why oxygenation is an issue. I doubt the wind is much of a threat, especially if you’re relatively sheltered within the structure of the wheel. Wouldn’t be much fun in a storm though - and presumably you’d be at high risk of getting stuck by lightning, clinging to the outside of what is essentially a massive Faraday cage??

But again, people go hang gliding at high altitudes for hours at a time and are essentially okay, although this guy (who I have met) nearly died:

https://www.wefornews.com/indian-army-r ... ragliding/
I know about the air pressure being lower, the higher you go. I lived in Denver for half a year. Denver is 1 mile above sea level or 5,280ft.
I only answered because you asked 😬

The article says "15,000 feet from the ground level". How high above sea level is the "ground" level, there where this man got stuck?
I don’t know actually - I think he was at least 5000m above sea level but that’s just from memory and I can’t find a source. Either way, he certainly wasn’t using supplementary oxygen.

User avatar
Kes
Moderator
Posts: 3939
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Kes »

Well, people can survive at a couple of thousand feet under water, and can survive at the surface.

I wouldn't advise anyone bridging the two on a regular basis without a decompression chamber.

Still, if you're escaping a flooding submarine, I guess you might risk it.

Post Reply