Presidents of the United States

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Starman
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Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Starman »

Kes wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:55 pmYou can't survive much above 10,000 ft without oxygen

Someone should tell the people in Bolivia
Last edited by Starman on Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lord of all darkness
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Re: Presidents of the United States

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Innuendoes wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:48 pm
Lord of all darkness wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:38 am The horrific scenes at the airport are heartbreaking. Clinging to an airliner or being tortured by the Taliban..
It's horrible, isn't it? Those poor people - all of them. I am so ashamed of this country right now. ☹️
Probably the only thing Trump and Biden agree on. They both wanted the US out of Afghanistan.

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Kes
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Re: Presidents of the United States

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Starman wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:57 pm

Someone should tell the people in Bolivia


Just a question. Approximately how long do Bolivians and the Nepalese get to acclimatise to extreme altitude? Days? Weeks? Months? Years?

Average people, who live at sea level, start losing cognitive function, at around an accelerated air pressure at 10,000 feet (10 pounds/sq in). Outside of a C17, you'd be going from 14.5 psi (sea level...ish) to 32,000 feet (4 psi) in about 15 minutes. The air temperature, would go from 20c, to below -50, in the same time frame.

Someone should tell THAT to an Afghan hanging by his fingernails onto an undercarriage leg, travelling at about 300 miles per hour. (and that's not even taking in account a fall from six miles up, without a parachute! Survivable?).

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Kes
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Re: Presidents of the United States

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Lord of all darkness wrote: Probably the only thing Trump and Biden agree on. They both wanted the US out of Afghanistan.
Slightly different motivations though.

One was fed up with spending excessive sums of money, on a place that didn't seem to appreciate it, the other, fed up with burying excessive numbers of dead Americans, killed in a place that didn't seem to appreciate it.

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Re: Presidents of the United States

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Kes wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:12 pm
Starman wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 8:57 pm

Someone should tell the people in Bolivia


Just a question. Approximately how long do Bolivians and the Nepalese get to acclimatise to extreme altitude? Days? Weeks? Months? Years?

Average people, who live at sea level, start losing cognitive function, at around an accelerated air pressure at 10,000 feet. Outside of a C17, you'd be going from 14.5 psi (sea level...ish) to 32,000 feet in about 15 minutes. The air temperature, would go from 20c, to below -50, in the same time frame.

Someone should tell THAT to an Afghan hanging by his fingernails onto an undercarriage leg, travelling at about 300 miles per hour.

There’s little point in splitting hairs over a few hundred feet but 10,000ft is absolutely fine.

If you were going there from sea level it would probably be worth spending a night at about 7500ft but you can pretty much go straight from 0 to 10,000ft without too much bother.

If you need supplementary oxygen at 10,000ft you have no business being on the mountain. You shouldn’t even be thinking about it until about 24,000ft.

I’d be far more worried about the cold in the aeroplane scenario, as you rightly say.


PS Just as a little reality check, in case you think I’m talking rubbish, people sky dive don’t they?

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Kes
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Re: Presidents of the United States

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My mind is taken back to a Helios Airlines flight from Cyprus to Athens, where the crew and passengers of a 737, became incapacitated, and subsequently frozen solid, inside the aircraft, and had the pilot and co-pilot "been OK" and in control of their faculties while climbing to altitude, 121 people would still be alive. So, maybe it depends on circumstances.

Either way, on a 10 hour trip from Afghanistan to the US, people clinging to the gear doors on a C-17, probably wouldn't still be there, or in any way recoverable at the other end.

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Re: Presidents of the United States

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Kes wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:21 am My mind is taken back to a Helios Airlines flight from Cyprus to Athens, where the crew and passengers of a 737, became incapacitated, and subsequently frozen solid, inside the aircraft, and had the pilot and co-pilot "been OK" and in control of their faculties while climbing to altitude, 121 people would still be alive. So, maybe it depends on circumstances.

Either way, on a 10 hour trip from Afghanistan to the US, people clinging to the gear doors on a C-17, probably wouldn't still be there, or in any way recoverable at the other end.
A quick Google suggests that the pilots started to get altitude sickness at about 18,000ft and were thus unable to deal with the equipment malfunction.

I’m sure you’ll tell me, but I’m pretty sure most planes are pressurised to an equivalent altitude of about 8000ft, so if 10,000ft is the point at which people can’t survive, that’s a pretty fine margin for error that the industry is operating with.

In reality, people can summit Everest (29,031ft) without supplementary oxygen (although the vast majority do use it). Yes, they’ve acclimatised, but there have also been helicopter rescues as high as 23,000ft, and that’s setting off from Kathmandu which is about 5000ft, and I’m pretty sure helicopters aren’t pressurised.

But we’ve deviated wildly from the topic so I’ll leave it there.

Surely that flight didn’t go all the way from Kabul to the USA though?

ETA: It turns out it landed in Qatar

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Re: Presidents of the United States

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Possibly worth the gamble if the alternative is certain death.

Probably wear your big coat though.

https://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/li ... r-19556855

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Re: Presidents of the United States

Post by Innuendoes »

Over here, 10,000ft is tree line. I love being at tree line and not so much above that because I start getting vertigo from the view with nothing between me and the sky or the ground, lol. No one who is used to 5000-8000 ft above sea level should have trouble with 10,000 ft unless they have a severe heart or lung issue, if even the n. Of course if they were exerting themselves or riding a bicycle at that altitude, maybe someone with heart disease would have problems but not someone who is used to it and fairly healthy.

Pike's Peak, for instance, is over 14,000 ft altitude. People hike up that every day. I stayed at 11,000ft, though. I looked up and got vertigo and said forget it.

But, Kes is right. Plus just the PSI, I think is what I am thinking of, would make it impossible to hold on.

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Re: Presidents of the United States

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Innuendoes wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 11:19 am Over here, 10,000ft is tree line. I love being at tree line and not so much above that because I start getting vertigo from the view with nothing between me and the sky or the ground, lol. No one who is used to 5000-8000 ft above sea level should have trouble with 10,000 ft unless they have a severe heart or lung issue, if even the n. Of course if they were exerting themselves or riding a bicycle at that altitude, maybe someone with heart disease would have problems but not someone who is used to it and fairly healthy.

Pike's Peak, for instance, is over 14,000 ft altitude. People hike up that every day. I stayed at 11,000ft, though. I looked up and got vertigo and said forget it.

But, Kes is right. Plus just the PSI, I think is what I am thinking of, would make it impossible to hold on.
I just posted a link to a story about a man who literally did survive a 10 hour flight clinging to the wheel, but believe what you prefer to believe I guess. Given that his friend died and he lost a leg, it’s clearly a high risk strategy but not one that makes death absolutely inevitable.

Agreed re heart and lung disease - I’d also add anaemia to that.

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