In The News Today...

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Kes
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Re: In The News Today...

Post by Kes »

I voted for remain.

If you think something's broken, it's usually easier to fix it from within.

The arguments used to promote Brexit, included how an unelected government can remotely control your day to day life, deciding how straight your cucumbers and bananas should be. How much more you are paying to be in the EU, against how much your country gets for that money. How someone who doesn't like living in Syria anymore, can spend three years in one EU country, and then use freedom of movement rules to settle in any EU state of their choice.

Arguments like these fuelled the pedancy, and pickiness of elements of the British population, and to a degree, there was some truth in it.

I lived in an area of South East England, near London, and anywhere I went, I'd progressively hear English being spoken less and less, in comparison to other languages, noticeably so. The number of people living in my local area, was seriously expanding at a rapid rate. The irony is, that people crossing the channel in rubber boats has got worse, not better. I've now moved to a more spacious area, with a different set of Brexit created problems. The EU ensured people working in agriculture got paid a fair sum for what they produced, and tried to make it a level playing field across the Union.

No, I'm not a fan of Brexit, but short of moving to an Eu country, there's not much I can do about it.

You get rid of one set of problems, you gain another. Consider Brexit as a protest vote, against the inevitably forthcoming United States of Europe. That's where the EU is heading, not a common market, but a single economic entity controlled by multi-national companies.

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WeeMann
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Re: In The News Today...

Post by WeeMann »

One of the problems in recent years was people like Farage winding up the public by moaning about unelected beaurocrats making decisions for us then literally getting elected into that position and doing precisely nothing to benefit the UK.

If the people voted into these positions weren't willing to do the job, how could it work?

We're now in a position where problems basically caused by the Brexit process are being exacerbated by the Covid pandemic and vice versa. Mind you, on the positive side, it did benefit the UK as regards stocks of the Astra Zenica vaccine as Europe suddenly found themselves behind us in the queue.

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Innuendoes
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Re: In The News Today...

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Lord of all darkness
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Re: In The News Today...

Post by Lord of all darkness »

They are both not new, well relatively so. They both seem to be, like other treatments suitable in the early onset of illness. I am sure that they will work in conjunction with current vaccines.

Also, believe it or not, Dr Fauci is on side of the Merck. https://www.9news.com.au/national/coron ... 5254e39c5d

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Re: In The News Today...

Post by Starman »

I voted remain, and I’d vote remain again if there was another referendum.

…but I’m increasingly starting to think that the EU must collapse one day, and we’re best off out of it before that happens. It’s done a great job of helping to strengthen Europe and maintain peace over the last 70 years, and it’s an absolute tragedy that the UK’s departure came against a backdrop of racism and isolationism.

But by design the EU is resistant to change. And change is essential for progress.

So whilst I voted remain in 2016 and would vote remain again tomorrow, I think that in the long run (maybe beyond any of our lifetimes) it will be for the best.

This dude says it better than me:


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Kes
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Re: In The News Today...

Post by Kes »

But since the referendum, the EU passed the Lisbon Agreement, which pushed the boundaries even further away from what Remainers were voting to keep, removing the rights to any one member state having the chance to veto any new rules they didn't like.

I too voted remain, but even the most reluctant among us, can see that the chances to fix a broken system from within, were ebbing away.

The whole Brexit - Remain discussion was divisive, and treading a very fine line. The irony of it, was that a lot of people who voted to leave, are going to be worse off for leaving, and vice versa. They were voting on issues they thought would make a radical change, and many of those issues haven't changed a bit.

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Re: In The News Today...

Post by Starman »

It’s difficult because the EU was doing an okay job of maintaining an okay status quo. A big change risks making things far worse. But there’s also the possibility of things getting far better. Stagnation isn’t a long-term option, and the EU was becoming a stagnant body.

Replacing the EU with a Tory government is a disaster of course, but in principle we can vote them out fairly easily.

The video I posted makes a great point: Why aren’t Remainers spearheading a ‘re-join’ campaign? Will that campaign ever start?

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Kes
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Re: In The News Today...

Post by Kes »

Replacing the EU with a Corbyn led parliament, In conjunction with a major pandemic, would have probably been even more catastrophic.

Even though they've wisely ditched Corbyn, a lot of the people who were saying the sun shone out of his arse, are still very much on the scene.

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Re: In The News Today...

Post by Starman »

I think the main problem with Corbyn is that he was an idealist, and totally unwilling to compromise on anything. That made him great for people who agreed with him, but doesn’t make for a good politician, who has to be able to negotiate and compromise as part of the job description.

Starmer is clearly chasing down the centre ground once occupied by Blair, sensing that the current government has swung too far to the right (dragged by Farage et al) and that the centre might attract some sympathy. They risk alienating some of their hardcore leftie support of course, but I guess those people will probably always vote Labour.

The problem with UK politics (and US politics) is that it’s an asymmetric battle between the left and the right. It’s probably easier to caricature in America than in the UK where essentially to be a Republican you just need to love Jesus, love guns and hate abortion, and you’re welcome with open arms. To be a Democrat, however, is to embark on a whole world of micro-battles amongst your fellow Democrats. You’re too left, not left enough, too woke, not woke, you’re taking money from big corporations, you’re socialist, you won’t condemn billionaires, you openly condemn billionaires….they cannibalise themselves instead of uniting and taking down the other side. And they’re similar in the UK. It was grimly predictable that the Labour Party would have the best opportunity it’s had in its entire history to tear down the Conservative Party and would squander it with infighting and bickering.

Tl;dr version - Labour supporters who hated Corbyn should have still voted for him. Corbyn supporters who hate Starmer should still vote for Starmer.

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Kes
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Re: In The News Today...

Post by Kes »

I disagree. People should vote for whoever represents them the best.

If one party promises to throw all everybody else's money at 5% of the population, and it doesn't benefit or represent them, then they shouldn't vote for them, just because their Dad's always voted for them.

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