In The News Today...

Other music, TV, films and general interest
User avatar
Innuendoes
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:32 pm
Location: Never be lonely, lost in the night, Just run from the darkness, lookin' for the light.

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Innuendoes »

I'll correct myself, here. There is too much data out there. Maybe they are executing Muslims, too. If the Muslims want out, someone should help them get out. It's just that if they are Americans (despite their nationality) they should come first if it's our military taking them out of there. Then the locals. I have no problem with that at all but I do think we should be allowed to take our own people first. Does that make sense or do you think we should take the locals first and leave the Americans behind?

User avatar
Leigh Burne
Posts: 611
Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2020 10:55 am
Location: England

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Leigh Burne »

Innuendoes wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:04 pmBiden sped up leaving by days.
I'm sure those few days would've made all the difference!

Kes gets it. The situation was fucked as soon as the Afghan military totally capitulated. I don't think anyone for saw them imploding quite so spectacularly.

And again - that shit would've happened whoever was sat in thew Oval Office.
Innuendoes wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:05 amMaybe they are executing Muslims, too.
They are absolutely executing Muslims. There are already reports of them torturing Afghans to death, including slicing the arm muscles off of one guy.

But sure, you focus your worry on those Christians.

User avatar
the milkman
Posts: 1486
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:24 pm

Re: In The News Today...

Post by the milkman »

Leigh Burne wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:37 am
Innuendoes wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 1:04 pmBiden sped up leaving by days.
I'm sure those few days would've made all the difference!

Kes gets it. The situation was fucked as soon as the Afghan military totally capitulated. I don't think anyone for saw them imploding quite so spectacularly.

And again - that shit would've happened whoever was sat in thew Oval Office.
Innuendoes wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:05 amMaybe they are executing Muslims, too.
They are absolutely executing Muslims. There are already reports of them torturing Afghans to death, including slicing the arm muscles off of one guy.

But sure, you focus your worry on those Christians.
That’s why that Glenn Beck rescue shit made me laugh. He’s only rescuing Christians? That’s so Christian like. :lol: When did these right wing bat shit crazy people lose it? A Christian only cares about people with the same beliefs as theirs? Jesus would be so proud. :roll:

Starman
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Starman »

The vast majority of people killed by the Taliban are Muslim.

The Muslims - flawed though their religion is (and you could make an argument that it’s one of the ‘worst’ in the world) - are probably the most persecuted people on the planet. They’re literally getting attacked from all directions. Christians (America and Europe), Hindus (in India), Jews (in Israel), the Chinese and even the Buddhists (Myanmar) are all lining up to kill or persecute the Muslims. And even amongst themselves they’re killing each other.

And as is so often the case, the ones who suffer the most are those who don’t really care that much about the theology of Islam; they’re just innocent people who happened to be born in war-torn Muslim countries.

Starman
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Starman »

Innuendoes wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:05 am I'll correct myself, here. There is too much data out there. Maybe they are executing Muslims, too. If the Muslims want out, someone should help them get out. It's just that if they are Americans (despite their nationality) they should come first if it's our military taking them out of there. Then the locals. I have no problem with that at all but I do think we should be allowed to take our own people first. Does that make sense or do you think we should take the locals first and leave the Americans behind?
How about Muslim Americans? Or Christian Afghans? Or (gulp) what about the atheists? Do you have a hierarchy of worthiness?

Starman
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Starman »

Kes wrote: Wed Sep 01, 2021 7:05 am
9/11 was carried out by Saudis, they found Bin Laden in Pakistan, someone remind me why Afghanistan and Iraq were the primary targets for a response, again.
Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 but I think it’s beyond all doubt that the Taliban protected and supported Al Qaeda, and that Bin Laden was there for a lot of the 90s and early 00s.

The border between Afghanistan and Pakistan is very long and very porous - my understanding is that the real-life border is far less real than what you see drawn on a map.

User avatar
Kes
Moderator
Posts: 3938
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:04 pm
Location: Scotland

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Kes »

Yeah, but equally 18 of the 19 hijackers weren't Afghans, and weren't from Pakistan either, they were Saudi national passport holders.

Absolutely nothing, not even a request of an investigation or inquiry, was directed towards Saudi Arabia. Personally, I think all Bin Laden was, was just the TV face of Al Qu'ida. It's not like he could control very much from that compound in Pakistan, that didn't have Internet, a phone, or even a set of Semaphore flags.

Starman
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Starman »

Kes wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:29 pm Yeah, but equally 18 of the 19 hijackers weren't Afghans, and weren't from Pakistan either, they were Saudi national passport holders.

Absolutely nothing, not even a request of an investigation or inquiry, was directed towards Saudi Arabia. Personally, I think all Bin Laden was, was just the TV face of Al Qu'ida. It's not like he could control very much from that compound in Pakistan, that didn't have Internet, a phone, or even a set of Semaphore flags.
I listened to a pretty illuminating podcast about this just last week. Bin Laden was essentially banished from his family (albeit with a very large inheritance), absolutely not on good terms with Saudi Arabia, and actually a very devout Muslim who cared strongly about the plight of the Afghans during their war with the USSR.

Whilst he was in Pakistan he had delusions of being the man pulling the strings but in fact the power had moved from Al Qaeda to ISIS, to whom they were ideologically opposed. Apparently to his dying day he believed he would make a comeback of sorts as the Muslim messiah.

The fact that the bombers were almost all Saudi is a curiosity but I don’t think there’s any evidence that the Saudi government were involved. It’s more likely that as Saudi nationals they were able to live in America without attracting too much attention.

Here’s the podcast; well worth a listen - I learnt a lot and it dispelled some myths that I’ve certainly spent 20 years believing (eg that the Americans funded Al Qaeda in the 80s - apparently not true):

https://samharris.org/podcasts/258-fall-afghanistan/
(It’s called the Fall of Afghanistan but it’s more about Bin Laden really)


PS Oh and Bin Laden wasn’t actually Saudi, he was Yemeni. I didn’t know that until a week ago.

User avatar
Innuendoes
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:32 pm
Location: Never be lonely, lost in the night, Just run from the darkness, lookin' for the light.

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Innuendoes »

Starman wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 7:02 pm
Innuendoes wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 12:05 am I'll correct myself, here. There is too much data out there. Maybe they are executing Muslims, too. If the Muslims want out, someone should help them get out. It's just that if they are Americans (despite their nationality) they should come first if it's our military taking them out of there. Then the locals. I have no problem with that at all but I do think we should be allowed to take our own people first. Does that make sense or do you think we should take the locals first and leave the Americans behind?
How about Muslim Americans? Or Christian Afghans? Or (gulp) what about the atheists? Do you have a hierarchy of worthiness?
Of course Muslim Americans were rescued. It's just that we couldn't get them all in the short timeframe that Biden gave the military or what was left of them, to take people out of there. There were many Muslim translators, for instance, and their families. Some of those were outright killed by ISIS for helping the United States. They may have been Afghans or they may have been from any region in the middle east but had American citizenship. Christian Afghans, of course! I am sure any atheist who wanted to leave was taken out of there as well provided there was room and time to get them out. Unfortunately, the amount of people left behind who were and are terrified for their lives, far outnumbers the actual amount who were rescued by US Forces.

User avatar
Innuendoes
Posts: 2845
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:32 pm
Location: Never be lonely, lost in the night, Just run from the darkness, lookin' for the light.

Re: In The News Today...

Post by Innuendoes »

Leigh Burne wrote: Thu Sep 02, 2021 9:37 am But sure, you focus your worry on those Christians.
Stop twisting my words.

Post Reply