What if...

Serious discussion about the band known as QUEEN.

Re: What if...

Postby bigV » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:40 am

cmsdrums wrote:At the time Queen stopped becoming a touring band, collaborations with rock bands and orchestras as a live spectacle hadn't really happened - only in the following few years did these really take off, with Metallica, Kiss , Deep Purple etc...


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Really?!

It was a thing, for sure. Not to mention that Queen put a symphonic orchestra in one of their videos. I'm sure they considered it, especially with Freddie's soft spot for combining classics and rock, but they just never got around to it. Something like that would've been a long project - maybe 6 months to a year - and during their touring career they just didn't have the time. After that... they were on borrowed time, experimenting just wasn't on the table.

On that note, I'm incredibly surprised that the first time Somebody to Love was performed with a full gospel choir, was at the Freddie Tribute. And I've always imagined Let Me Live performed the same way. For shame, it would have been glorious!

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Re: What if...

Postby VaudevilleDeMille » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:50 am

bigV wrote:

On that note, I'm incredibly surprised that the first time Somebody to Love was performed with a full gospel choir, was at the Freddie Tribute. And I've always imagined Let Me Live performed the same way. For shame, it would have been glorious!

V.


Oh yes, that would've been wonderful to hear, especially on the US tours.

The beauty of Queen's music lies in not only it's versatility but also it's broad appeal not just to fans but musicians themselves. A lot of the tributes and nods to various forms and styles in Queen's back catalogue are so well done that when the baton is passed back from the band to whatever influenced them in whatever shape or form, it sounds glorious.

Such as when the RPO covered Queen, tailor-made for each other they were.
 
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Re: What if...

Postby bigV » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:58 am

VaudevilleDeMille wrote:The beauty of Queen's music lies in not only it's versatility but also it's broad appeal not just to fans but musicians themselves.


Indeed. That's one of the things I love most about them - their versatility. They tried everything, and I mean everything. Sometimes, adjacent songs on the albums were radically different musical styles. As Ian Hunter put it: "Alarming lapses of tastes." But in a good way.

Consider: the latino samba-esuqe My Baby Does me is right next to the symphonic metal Was It All Worth It. Who else could get away with something like that? I don't know any other band that would have the balls to do it.

VaudevilleDeMille wrote:A lot of the tributes and nods to various forms and styles in Queen's back catalogue are so well done that when the baton is passed back from the band to whatever influenced them in whatever shape or form, it sounds glorious.


Most Queen fans, including people on here, have an intense dislike (put it mildly) for cover versions and tribute albums, but I enjoy them. Especially when the cover is in a radically different direction from the original. Some nice examples: Gavin DeGraw's bluesy interpretation of We Are the Champions, Maria McKee's piano and vocal cover of I'm In Love With My Car and the incredibly creative (albeit almost un-listenable) Rap Soda y Bohemia by Molotov. My favourite tribute album is "Tributo a Queen: los grandes del rock en español". It's very interesting to hear these songs in another language.

VaudevilleDeMille wrote:Such as when the RPO covered Queen, tailor-made for each other they were.


I have 2-3 symphonic tribute albums. One of them is almost un-listenable - not because of the orchestra, but because they hired awful session musicians to play drums and guitar. Almost any guitarist who has tried to play the BoRhap Solo (and whose name is not Brian May), has murdered it. But if you find a symphonic tribute without rock musicians, it's a great listen.

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Re: What if...

Postby Kes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:51 am

The thing I find with Queen covers, is that although I really do enjoy hearing them, I then find myself in a position of choice between listening to the original (invariably better) version, or playing what I already know is a sub standard cover. It means that I very rarely play the cover that much.
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Re: What if...

Postby bigV » Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:07 am

Kes wrote:The thing I find with Queen covers, is that although I really do enjoy hearing them, I then find myself in a position of choice between listening to the original (invariably better) version, or playing what I already know is a sub standard cover. It means that I very rarely play the cover that much.


Yes, but it's not a general rule that the original songs are always better than the cover. For instance, Brian May's cover of Rollin' Over is infinitely better than the original.

In Queen's case, yes. I've never heard a cover that can match the brilliance of Queen. Obviously. But I enjoy covers from time to time, because I know the originals so well after all these years. It's nice to have variety once in a while. Kid Rock (although I do detest him, especially since he went all right wing political) did a lovely cover of Fat Bottomed Girls...

And some I just listen to out of morbid curiousity, because they're so dreadful. Like Filip Kirkorov's cover of TSMGO. Or this abomination...

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Re: What if...

Postby Kes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:21 pm

We'll have to agree to disagree on one of your points there.

Ogden's Nutgone Flake by the Small Faces, is one of my favourite late sixties albums. IMHO, Brian's interpretation of Rollin' Over manages to lose half of the meaning, context and intention of the song. Which brings me to my next point.

Usually, the first version you hear of a song, is the one that either grabs you, or doesn't. Not neccessarily the "original" version, but the one you first hear. That's why, to me, All Along The Watchtower by Hendrix, pisses all over Dylan's original. I didn't hear Dylan's version until years after Hendrix had charted the song.

And I say "usually" because sometimes, someone can be inspired by what a lot of us would call an "average" song, and take it somewhere that really strikes a chord with us. But in that case, you have to realise that the person who did the version we patently like, saw something in the original song that we probably didn't.
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Re: What if...

Postby VaudevilleDeMille » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:23 pm

Covers as a whole are quite subjective. On the one hand, there have been brilliant covers, such as Nilsson's cover of Fred Neal's 'Everybody's Talkin' and his whole album of Randy Newman covers, because he really made them his own. Or like Jamie Cullum's cover of 'Being For The Benefit Of Mr. Kite or Oingo Boingo's cover of Violent Love.

But I think that the Queen covers I've listened to (bar the RPO) haven't really carried that same charm.

As Big V. noted above, any attempt at Brian's solo on Bo Rhap has been crap, it never carries the same 'oomph' as the original.
Perhaps I need to do some digging for certain songs. If it's a song I like, the more chance I have liking the cover, I think (hope/pray/beg).
 
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Re: What if...

Postby Kes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:32 pm

Probably, well, in my humble opinion, anyway,

...the only cover I've heard Brian (or ANY member of Queen) do, that even gets close to the first version of a song I've heard before, is Since You've Been Gone, and even then, it doesn't quite overtake the Rainbow original.
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Re: What if...

Postby bigV » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:08 pm

Kes wrote:Probably, well, in my humble opinion, anyway,

...the only cover I've heard Brian (or ANY member of Queen) do, that even gets close to the first version of a song I've heard before, is Since You've Been Gone, and even then, it doesn't quite overtake the Rainbow original.


Working Class Hero? Sorry, John Lennon was a genius, but Roger's version wipes the floor with the original. Same with Roger's take on Rock 'n Roll.

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Re: What if...

Postby Kes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:15 pm

Not too sure if there's a protest song in the world that beats John and his accoustic guitar doing Working Class Hero. Quite possibly the best thing he ever did. I must have heard at least a dozen covers of it, and not one of them gets close to capturing Lennon's emotion on that song.

As regards even thinking the idea of Roger doing Rock and Roll better than Led Zeppelin, get the fuck out of here!
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Re: What if...

Postby bigV » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:45 pm

Kes wrote:As regards even thinking the idea of Roger doing Rock and Roll better than Led Zeppelin, get the fuck out of here!


:shock:

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen you drop an f-bomb on here. I must've really pissed you off :P

Note to self: Always end comments with "my 2 cents".

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Re: What if...

Postby Echoplex » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:41 pm

Kes wrote:Not too sure if there's a protest song in the world that beats John and his accoustic guitar doing Working Class Hero. Quite possibly the best thing he ever did. I must have heard at least a dozen covers of it, and not one of them gets close to capturing Lennon's emotion on that song.

As regards even thinking the idea of Roger doing Rock and Roll better than Led Zeppelin, get the fuck out of here!


Best cover of Rock and Roll has got to be by Heart, but that is genuine fans of a band paying homage.

NIN's version of Get Down Make Love is great but no where near as good as the original.

Best cover I've heard has got to be Zappa's version of Stairway To Heaven. . He takes it everywhere and ends it with a note perfect version of Pages solo played on sax trumpet and trombone. . .

I think what we need to remember is that we are living in the lifetime of these classic songs being written and recorded. In 20 or 30 years from now if you want to experience a live performance it will be a cover ad is anything played now that, say Glen Miller recorded.
 
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Re: What if...

Postby The__KingOfRhye » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:54 pm

Kes wrote:Usually, the first version you hear of a song, is the one that either grabs you, or doesn't. Not neccessarily the "original" version, but the one you first hear. That's why, to me, All Along The Watchtower by Hendrix, pisses all over Dylan's original. I didn't hear Dylan's version until years after Hendrix had charted the song.


Good point, I agree...the one exception for me I can think of (also involving Bob Dylan!) is Mr. Tambourine Man. The version everyone knows, and one I heard first, is the cover by The Byrds. I didn't hear Dylan's version until I was a teenager and my brother had a cassette of Bringing It All Home that I think I just about wore out, and then later I bought it on CD...several different times...the Byrds's version is a good cover, but I just like the not-as-poppy-and-jangly original better now.
 
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Re: What if...

Postby Kes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:14 pm

bigV wrote:
Kes wrote:As regards even thinking the idea of Roger doing Rock and Roll better than Led Zeppelin, get the fuck out of here!


:shock:

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen you drop an f-bomb on here. I must've really pissed you off :P

Note to self: Always end comments with "my 2 cents".

V.


My apologies.

I was quoting Eddie Murphy with his line expressing exclamation of complete disbelief, from the movie Beverly Hills Cop.

I wish the jury to consider that HE said it first, not me, your honour.
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Re: What if...

Postby Kes » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:20 pm

Echoplex wrote:
I think what we need to remember is that we are living in the lifetime of these classic songs being written and recorded. In 20 or 30 years from now if you want to experience a live performance it will be a cover ad is anything played now that, say Glen Miller recorded.


Being fair, if you wanted to see or hear Glenn Miller conducting Moonlight Serenade, live in front of his orchestra, then you'd have to go back to about 1944, as he disappeared on a flight across the English Channel, while the hostilities were still going on in Europe, in WWII.

A lot of people attribute it to a freak accident, where a squadron of returning bombers, who were unable to reach their target, for one reason or another, dumped their bombs in the channel. Unfortunately, as his flight plan was at a couple of hundred feet, it might have been on Major Miller's head. They've never found him or his plane, so no-one really knows.
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