The New News Thread.

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:46 am

action wrote:
My point is, the burqa is a symbol of oppression, and is used that way in all those countries I listed, as such


They also whip people in Saudi Arabia for various crimes.

Are we going to shut down Ann Summers and other sex shops because the whip is a symbol of oppression?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:48 am

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:
it's really fucking simple then, to agree that at least "some" women are forced to wear a burqa. To the point, where the burqa itself is symbol of oppression.

It's not uncommon for a state to prohibit symbols of oppression. See germany and the nazi flag (say Hi, Godwin).


Of course some are forced to.

And some are not.

The problem is not the burkha, the problem is men.

Some men won't let their wives out of the house wearing makeup. Are we going to make makeup compulsory because lack of it is a symbol of oppression?


if I want to wear nazi clothes in germany (or many other countries for that matter), I will be jailed administratively. Nazi clothes are a symbol of oppression. No questions asked. Because the nazi regime committed cruel atrocities. The nazi regime happened almost 70 years ago.

The burqa is used as oppression in all those countries I listed. It is a symbol of oppression. No questions asked. The oppression of women happens today.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:53 am

action wrote:
if I want to wear nazi clothes in germany (or many other countries for that matter), I will be jailed administratively. Nazi clothes are a symbol of oppression. No questions asked. Because the nazi regime committed cruel atrocities. The nazi regime happened almost 70 years ago.

The burqa is used as oppression in all those countries I listed. It is a symbol of oppression. No questions asked. The oppression of women happens today.


Nazism is a source of great shame for Germany, and the way they deal with that legacy is up to them. In the UK, it is not illegal to wear a Nazi uniform as long as it doesn't incite hatred. The swastika is also frequently seen in India, Nepal and other Hindu nations.

The burkha is not exclusively a symbol of oppression. Millions of women wear it voluntarily and they should not have that right taken away from them.

It's interesting that when I talk about the St George flag being associated with racism, I'm accused of being a non-patriotic leftie, yet it is acceptable to write off the burkha as being solely a symbol of oppression. White man symbol good, brown woman symbol bad?
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:02 am

A British nun:

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:07 am

Kes wrote:Full face covering is not part of our culture in the West


Are you sure about that?

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:49 am

Elessar wrote:Nazism is a source of great shame for Germany, and the way they deal with that legacy is up to them. In the UK, it is not illegal to wear a Nazi uniform as long as it doesn't incite hatred. The swastika is also frequently seen in India, Nepal and other Hindu nations.

The burkha is not exclusively a symbol of oppression. Millions of women wear it voluntarily and they should not have that right taken away from them.

It's interesting that when I talk about the St George flag being associated with racism, I'm accused of being a non-patriotic leftie, yet it is acceptable to write off the burkha as being solely a symbol of oppression. White man symbol good, brown woman symbol bad?


you seem to want to defend the burqa, as you easily dismiss all signs that point to it being a symbol of oppression.

one can find points to justify any kind of twisted situation, if you look hard enough. and course, if you take away every sense of humanity / empathy / gut feeling, there is always the option to say "where is the proof of your claim". Where is the proof that most men fall in love with women? It's the kind of silly question, that seems to answer itself by merely asking for it, but there you go. Where is the proof that women are forced to wear a burqa? it's the same. Silly question. Asking the question is answering it. But yeah, you can have a laugh and ask for proof. great laughs. But it's usually the moment where steady headed people shake their heads and quitly walk away.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Kes » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:06 pm

Elessar wrote:
Kes wrote:Full face covering is not part of our culture in the West


Are you sure about that?

Image


And how many days a year did she wear one of those out in public?

My point is that if your culture suggests that face recognition is an integral part of your society, let's say like makes you individual like your fingerprints, then would it be OK for people rebelling against that to sand their fingerprints off, and what would it say about them?

If we had banned the day to day wearing of full face covering from the outset, then people would have accepted that as a ground rule for living here, it wouldn't be an issue. But because it's become a "semi"-accepted norm, we can't go back on that. Certain European countries ARE trying to redress the balance. Good luck on that one.

As to whether any women actually WANT to wear one. I've heard that "the majority" of female circumsision procedures are not only carried out with the consent of the person it's happening to, but also carried out by women. Does that make it either right or sensible? A perspective argument perhaps! Where do we get off telling other people what they can or can't do?

It's a major part of Rastafarianism to be able to smoke pot. Given that Rastafarianism IS an accepted part of our culture these days, how has UK law changed over forty years to accommodate the possession of illegal substances? Simple answer, it hasn't. Is it racist or anti-religious to continue holding the view that cannabis is illegal? Once again, no, because we accept it is what it is.
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:37 pm

In the last few pages we’ve had wearing a thin piece of cloth across the face compared to: Rape, female circumcision, and smoking marijuana.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:38 pm

Enough of the white non-Muslim men and their opinions. Let’s hear from some Muslim women.

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:50 pm

Kes wrote: I've heard that "the majority" of female circumsision procedures are not only carried out with the consent of the person it's happening to, but also carried out by women.


Even if that were true, these procedures are carried out on girls who would usually be considered too young to give informed consent. Coincidentally, or perhaps not, very young children don’t tend to wear burkhas.

Forcing others to do things against their will is illegal.
Concealing your face when you’re required by law to show it is illegal.

As long as those two conditions don’t apply, a piece of cloth over the face doesn’t harm anybody and the idea of banning it or not tolerating it is entirely unjustified.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:57 pm

Elessar wrote: a piece of cloth over the face doesn’t harm anybody and the idea of banning it or not tolerating it is entirely unjustified.


what about this? it's not put over the face, it's put on one's jacket.

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby action » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:00 pm

Elessar wrote:Enough of the white non-Muslim men and their opinions. Let’s hear from some Muslim women.

phpBB [video]


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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Spook2 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:03 pm

.
Last edited by Spook2 on Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:04 pm

action wrote:what about this? it's not put over the face, it's put on one's jacket.

Image


A practice that was forced upon a minority.

In contrast to this, which is worn consensually:

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Re: The New News Thread.

Postby Elessar » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:06 pm

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Enough of the white non-Muslim men and their opinions. Let’s hear from some Muslim women.

phpBB [video]


phpBB [video]


Why do you think you are able to diagnose young, independent women with a psychiatric disorder because they are behaving in a way that you don’t approve of?
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