What comes after this life ?

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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:02 am

action wrote:
he came to the conclusion that the jews needed to be exterminated, way before that even happened. he wrote it all in his book, 25 years before the holocaust. how do they call that? premediation.

hate against the jews exists pretty much since Jesus died. (or even before, I'm not sure). but until hitler no one came up with the idea to kill them all. this is the part that's quite dodgy. pretty sure churchill didn't share THAT view.

but it's not about wether hitler was or was not bad. (insert your "are we the bàddies" GIF here). it's about what came of his soul (supposed we have one) and why his soul was allowed to do what it did.


Well if souls exist and Hitler’s isn’t in hell, hell must be a pretty lonely place.

Surely any kind of god who wanted to intervene when evil was about to happen wouldn’t wait until the extermination of 6 million Jews, but would stop any murder, or indeed any act of violence? And perhaps he wouldn’t give babies terminal cancer?

As for pre-meditation of mass extermination:

“I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes.”
- Winston Churchill

Now admittedly he advocates gas because it has the potential to be less permanently harmful than bombs, so it seems unlikely he’d have advocated Auschwitz. But my point is that to a certain extent we’re dealing with small differences. If Churchill had grown up in post-first world war Germany, who knows?
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:05 am

BTW is this about Hitler in his bunker?

phpBB [video]
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:39 am

Elessar wrote:
As for pre-meditation of mass extermination:

“I do not understand this squeamishness about the use of gas. We have definitely adopted the position at the Peace Conference of arguing in favour of the retention of gas as a permanent method of warfare. It is sheer affectation to lacerate a man with the poisonous fragment of a bursting shell and to boggle at making his eyes water by means of lachrymatory gas. I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes.”
- Winston Churchill

Now admittedly he advocates gas because it has the potential to be less permanently harmful than bombs, so it seems unlikely he’d have advocated Auschwitz. But my point is that to a certain extent we’re dealing with small differences. If Churchill had grown up in post-first world war Germany, who knows?


the only thing they had in common was the means: gas

Hitler has advocated, and justified, in his book that he wanted to destroy an entire race. he didn't even mention gas yet. So it's less about the means (gas), than the idea of destroying an entire race.

It's possible that churchill thought that gas was less harmfull, but that's beside the point. I don't really see the problem myself. wether hitler would have used guns / the electric chair / lethal injection or gas isn't the problem. the problem is in the numbers: 6.000.000 deaths. women and children. THAT's the issue, and it's a world of difference between churchill and hitler
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby YAFF » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:30 pm

This....according to Jehovah's nitwits

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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:09 pm

Elessar wrote:Another version of the simulation theory is that the simulation started this morning and we woke up with false memories of a life lived, but if that were the case, how could you possibly know? The answer is that you couldn't.


the universe, at the least started with this post since I clearly remember it, and so does Elessar. Although admittedly, I've deleted a few words for convenience.
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:08 pm

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Another version of the simulation theory is that the simulation started this morning and we woke up with false memories of a life lived, but if that were the case, how could you possibly know? The answer is that you couldn't.


the universe, at the least started with this post since I clearly remember it, and so does Elessar. Although admittedly, I've deleted a few words for convenience.


Your memory is highly fallible. The Loftus and Palmer experiment formally demonstrates this. If we’re simulations, our memories could just as easily be part of our programming.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:28 pm

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Another version of the simulation theory is that the simulation started this morning and we woke up with false memories of a life lived, but if that were the case, how could you possibly know? The answer is that you couldn't.


the universe, at the least started with this post since I clearly remember it, and so does Elessar. Although admittedly, I've deleted a few words for convenience.


Your memory is highly fallible. The Loftus and Palmer experiment formally demonstrates this. If we’re simulations, our memories could just as easily be part of our programming.


if that was the case, and your post was part of the simulation set-up, then you must be a bot and your post a curious product of the simulation.

or maybe I'm the bot, and it's just the simulation creating this post of mine.

also, if my memories are fabricated, there still is the problem that you and me remember the same post. so we both have the same memory. along with the other lurkers on here who are watching this discussion.

seeing how everyone agrees on the same memory, does that not constitute reality in and of itself?

the past is gone, so wether the past is only in our brain, or the past "really" happened, there really isn't much difference to be observed at this moment. both are basically one and the same
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Wed Feb 13, 2019 10:27 pm

action wrote:if that was the case, and your post was part of the simulation set-up, then you must be a bot and your post a curious product of the simulation.

or maybe I'm the bot, and it's just the simulation creating this post of mine.

also, if my memories are fabricated, there still is the problem that you and me remember the same post. so we both have the same memory. along with the other lurkers on here who are watching this discussion.

seeing how everyone agrees on the same memory, does that not constitute reality in and of itself?

the past is gone, so wether the past is only in our brain, or the past "really" happened, there really isn't much difference to be observed at this moment. both are basically one and the same


The simulated history would of course involve some shared memories. We also all remember Michael Jackson dying and the Twin Towers being hit. Interesting of course there are also mass false memories - the so-called Mandela Effect.

Our watches tell the same time (actually they don’t as we’re in different time zones, but for argument’s sake...). That’s simply a question of programming. No reason why our memories should be any different.

I don’t think I believe the simulation hypothesis, by the way. My point is just that it’s essentially impossible to disprove. As usual, it all comes back to Descartes.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby icy » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:39 pm

If something happens after this life, I just hope it's peaceful.
I really, really hope for that.
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Fri Feb 15, 2019 7:15 pm

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https://thispersondoesnotexist.com/

all these faces were created from the gound up, by an AI. these people do not exist.

the possibility of this being a realtime simulation increases even more
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:32 pm

Will AI ever be able to simulate quaila though?

That said, does it actually matter? For all I know, I’m the only person in the world who actually does experience qualia, and everyone else is just programmed to think they’re experiencing it.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Sat Feb 16, 2019 8:24 am

Elessar wrote:Will AI ever be able to simulate quaila though?

That said, does it actually matter? For all I know, I’m the only person in the world who actually does experience qualia, and everyone else is just programmed to think they’re experiencing it.


qualia? look at them apples!

no really, I've never heard of qualia. judging from your use of the word and it's place in the syntaxis, I'd have a guess at it having something to do with "sex"? teach me, master (I'm not a google kind of person)
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Sat Feb 16, 2019 6:03 pm

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Will AI ever be able to simulate quaila though?

That said, does it actually matter? For all I know, I’m the only person in the world who actually does experience qualia, and everyone else is just programmed to think they’re experiencing it.


qualia? look at them apples!

no really, I've never heard of qualia. judging from your use of the word and it's place in the syntaxis, I'd have a guess at it having something to do with "sex"? teach me, master (I'm not a google kind of person)


It’s a word for what the experience of something is. A red apple doesn’t look like photons of a wavelength of 700nm are bouncing off it, it looks ‘red’. The apple tastes ‘sweet’.

How do you explain to a blind person what ‘red’ is? Do I (being colour blind) know what ‘green’ is? I feel that I do, but analysis of my retina reveals that I probably don’t.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:27 am

Elessar wrote:It’s a word for what the experience of something is. A red apple doesn’t look like photons of a wavelength of 700nm are bouncing off it, it looks ‘red’. The apple tastes ‘sweet’.

How do you explain to a blind person what ‘red’ is? Do I (being colour blind) know what ‘green’ is? I feel that I do, but analysis of my retina reveals that I probably don’t.


I agree that a red apple can be described in two fundamentally different ways. Ie in the sense of the composition of it's particles and reflective behaviour of photons, AND in the sense of our "experience" with them.

I find it curious that there is the latter description to begin with. a red apple is quite charming. it's the basis of fairy tales. "our" experience is a whole other universe of stories, BESIDES the already expansive description of the quantum world.

why does the "charming" description even exist? why is everything so beautiful, as freddie sang in his last song?
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:51 am

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:It’s a word for what the experience of something is. A red apple doesn’t look like photons of a wavelength of 700nm are bouncing off it, it looks ‘red’. The apple tastes ‘sweet’.

How do you explain to a blind person what ‘red’ is? Do I (being colour blind) know what ‘green’ is? I feel that I do, but analysis of my retina reveals that I probably don’t.


I agree that a red apple can be described in two fundamentally different ways. Ie in the sense of the composition of it's particles and reflective behaviour of photons, AND in the sense of our "experience" with them.

I find it curious that there is the latter description to begin with. a red apple is quite charming. it's the basis of fairy tales. "our" experience is a whole other universe of stories, BESIDES the already expansive description of the quantum world.

why does the "charming" description even exist? why is everything so beautiful, as freddie sang in his last song?


I don’t know how ‘beauty’ fits into the idea of qualia but perhaps it does - it seems odd that a glass of fine wine, the New York skyline, a newborn baby, a Beethoven symphony, Venice, the smell of freshly baked bread, the Mona Lisa, Natalie Portman, the Himalayas, a sports car and a goal by Lionel Messi can all be described as ‘beautiful’ and they all seem to share this property despite working in completely different parts of our sensory perception. Could a robot ever simulate that?
 
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