I've had it up to here with religion!

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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby bigV » Fri Oct 12, 2018 11:33 am

YAFF wrote:
The__KingOfRhye wrote:The thing is, the burden of proof, to those who care about it, lies on the one making the claim. If you say "X exists," it ain't up to me to prove it doesn't.


True. However, if you say "X doesn't exist" you are making a claim to knowledge. You should at least be required to provide one example that makes "X doesn't exist" reasonable. If only to be fair.


Which leads to the logical conclusion that agnostics are the most sane of the whole spectrum. All agnostics claim is that they don't know.

Me - I tread the fine line between agnostic and atheist.

V.
 
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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby Elessar » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:03 pm

bigV wrote:
YAFF wrote:
The__KingOfRhye wrote:The thing is, the burden of proof, to those who care about it, lies on the one making the claim. If you say "X exists," it ain't up to me to prove it doesn't.


True. However, if you say "X doesn't exist" you are making a claim to knowledge. You should at least be required to provide one example that makes "X doesn't exist" reasonable. If only to be fair.


Which leads to the logical conclusion that agnostics are the most sane of the whole spectrum. All agnostics claim is that they don't know.

Me - I tread the fine line between agnostic and atheist.

V.


Strictly speaking, I think agnosticism is the only truly rational stance. We cannot know either way. However, we can be pretty sure there’s not a god, and that still makes us agnostic as we don’t claim to know for sure. ‘Tooth fairy agnostic’ is a term I’ve heard for it (possibly from Dawkins). There’s sometimes an assumption that agnostic means ‘50/50’ when in fact it can be anything from 99/1 to 1/99.
 
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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby action » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:06 pm

Elessar wrote:
Strictly speaking, I think agnosticism is the only truly rational stance. We cannot know either way. However, we can be pretty sure there’s not a god, and that still makes us agnostic as we don’t claim to know for sure. ‘Tooth fairy agnostic’ is a term I’ve heard for it (possibly from Dawkins). There’s sometimes an assumption that agnostic means ‘50/50’ when in fact it can be anything from 99/1 to 1/99.


you know more than me then
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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby Elessar » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:25 pm

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:
Strictly speaking, I think agnosticism is the only truly rational stance. We cannot know either way. However, we can be pretty sure there’s not a god, and that still makes us agnostic as we don’t claim to know for sure. ‘Tooth fairy agnostic’ is a term I’ve heard for it (possibly from Dawkins). There’s sometimes an assumption that agnostic means ‘50/50’ when in fact it can be anything from 99/1 to 1/99.


you know more than me then


I’m sure I do, yes, but you’ve misunderstood my entire post.

I’m talking about personal degrees of sureness. We can be pretty sure there’s a god. We can be pretty sure there’s no god. Our own degree of sureness doesn’t imply correctness. My point is that ‘pretty sure’ still counts as agnostic, as opposed to atheist which demands ‘absolute certainty’, which is irrational.
 
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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby action » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:01 pm

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:
Elessar wrote:
Strictly speaking, I think agnosticism is the only truly rational stance. We cannot know either way. However, we can be pretty sure there’s not a god, and that still makes us agnostic as we don’t claim to know for sure. ‘Tooth fairy agnostic’ is a term I’ve heard for it (possibly from Dawkins). There’s sometimes an assumption that agnostic means ‘50/50’ when in fact it can be anything from 99/1 to 1/99.


you know more than me then


I’m sure I do, yes, but you’ve misunderstood my entire post.

I’m talking about personal degrees of sureness. We can be pretty sure there’s a god. We can be pretty sure there’s no god. Our own degree of sureness doesn’t imply correctness. My point is that ‘pretty sure’ still counts as agnostic, as opposed to atheist which demands ‘absolute certainty’, which is irrational.


doesn't it boil down to personal "opinion"?
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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby JLP » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:19 pm

What hugs me about religion is the way people use it to suit their bigotries. Such as bakers in Belfast.
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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby YAFF » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:20 pm

Elessar wrote: We can be pretty sure there’s a god. We can be pretty sure there’s no god. Our own degree of sureness doesn’t imply correctness. My point is that ‘pretty sure’ still counts as agnostic, as opposed to atheist which demands ‘absolute certainty’, which is irrational.


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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby YAFF » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:21 pm

JLP wrote:What hugs me about religion is the way people use it to suit their bigotries. Such as bakers in Belfast.


I just want to post before you change "hugs" to "bugs" :lol:
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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby YAFF » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:26 pm

bigV wrote:
YAFF wrote:
The__KingOfRhye wrote:The thing is, the burden of proof, to those who care about it, lies on the one making the claim. If you say "X exists," it ain't up to me to prove it doesn't.


True. However, if you say "X doesn't exist" you are making a claim to knowledge. You should at least be required to provide one example that makes "X doesn't exist" reasonable. If only to be fair.


Which leads to the logical conclusion that agnostics are the most sane of the whole spectrum. All agnostics claim is that they don't know.

Me - I tread the fine line between agnostic and atheist.

V.


Like I've said before we are all truly agnostic by default and that shouldn't really give much hope or validation to either side of belief. Nevertheless it's surely a wee bit harder to prove something doesn't exist than prove that it does. I tread the line between agnostic and deist and I would love for that to be theist but....
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Re: I've had it up to here with religion!

Postby JLP » Fri Oct 12, 2018 2:32 pm

YAFF wrote:
JLP wrote:What hugs me about religion is the way people use it to suit their bigotries. Such as bakers in Belfast.


I just want to post before you change "hugs" to "bugs" :lol:


Bloody predictive text.
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