In the news today

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Re: In the news today

Postby Oret » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:38 am

fairydandy wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39255181

Theresa May must say no to this repulsive, power crazed woman. No referendum until the Brexit negotiations are over.

I still maintain that Brexit won't happen and I can see a General Election within months now. She doesn't have the majority to push it through. If she loses the General Election, Brexit will be dead (it can join democracy because that's dead too).


I'm curious... Why do you think she is a repulsive and power crazed woman?
Is it just because she wants Scotland to separate itself from Great Britain?

Essentially she's wanting the same thing as the Brexiters:
A new vote now that the circumstances have changed from the previous decision.
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:17 am

She's head of the Scottish Nationalist Party.

The whole point of the SNP is like that of UKIP, to fight for Independance. At just about ANY COST.

They had a referendum for that a couple of years back, and now she's using the argument for staying in one power sharing Union, to get out of another. For her to want to do that, it just shows how big an issue getting rid of ANY allegiance or alliance to Westminster is to her. Also, when they had the last referendum, oil (A pretty major resource to Scotland), had a lot more financial clout than it does currently. As it sits at the moment, the books wouldn't balance.

However you look at it, if Scotland DOES decide to break from the United Kingdom, they'll still have to try to negotiate their own deal with Europe, and that isn't quite as foregone a conclusion as Nicola Sturgeon is making out. The Scots could find themselves completely independent from both Europe AND Britain, and without the financial back up to move anywhere but backwards.

It's a tricky situation, and maybe now isn't the best time for them to do it.
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Re: In the news today

Postby Oret » Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:39 pm

Nevertheless, she is within her rights to pursue it.
Some might even say it's her obligation.

It's a bit like if the EU now decided to give the UK anything they wanted, and the Brexiters refusing another referendum.
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby fairydandy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:03 pm

Oret wrote:
I'm curious... Why do you think she is a repulsive and power crazed woman?
Is it just because she wants Scotland to separate itself from Great Britain?

Essentially she's wanting the same thing as the Brexiters:
A new vote now that the circumstances have changed from the previous decision.


We had a nationwide referendum that was for the whole of the UK. Scotland is a part of the UK. We voted to leave. Now, one can argue how sensible it was to hold a referendum in the first place, but once that referendum was given to us, surely the result should be respected? That to me is pure democracy in action.

Now, people argue that what Sturgeon is doing is democratic, well no, it's not. Scotland had a referendum only three years ago and they decided to stay in the union. If you're in the union, you should respect the decisions made by that union, not seek to destroy it.

I couldn't care less if Scotland leave, in fact, the sooner the better, but to pretend that this is about them wanting to stay in the EU is insulting. This is about personal power for her and it's about her hatred of the English. I think she's a manipulative, miserable, power crazed dwarf and I won't be changing that view anytime soon. ;)
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:05 pm

To Oret: That all depends on whether or not it's her agenda, or Scotland's.

I, personally feel that if she gets her referendum, and Scotland votes to stay as part of Britain, she'll do exactly what her predecessor did, and step down as leader, only to be replaced by someone else chasing any excuse for a referendum, and so on until they get their way.

As fd says, this is ALL about her, and her party's agenda to get Scotland out of the U.K., not anything to do with Europe, as she knows she would have bigger problems trying to keep Scotland in the EU. Still, one problem at a time. She gets the first one out of the way, she can then argue that England stitched her up for the second bit, whether there'd be any truth in it or not.
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Re: In the news today

Postby fairydandy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:08 pm

Oret wrote:
It's a bit like if the EU now decided to give the UK anything they wanted, and the Brexiters refusing another referendum.


You shouldn't keep having referenda until you get the 'right' result, that's not democracy, that's manipulation.
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby fairydandy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:09 pm

Kes wrote:That all depends on whether or not it's her agenda, or Scotland's.

I, personally feel that if she gets her referendum, and Scotland votes to stay as part of Britain, she'll do exactly what her predecessor did, and step down as leader, only to be replaced by someone else chasing any excuse for a referendum, and so on until they get their way.


Exactly.
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:15 pm

And THAT's exactly what the SNP are ALL about.

Scotland to be its own nation. Whether the place actually has the ability to stand on it's own feet or not, who cares? ...fuck everyone else.
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Re: In the news today

Postby fairydandy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:26 pm

Kes wrote:And THAT's exactly what the SNP are ALL about.

Scotland to be its own nation.


Yes and I hope they get it. I just don't like all this nonsense and pretence that it is about staying in the EU.

Some perspective whilst we are here. SNP got 56 seats with 1.4 million votes. UKIP got 1 seat with 4 million votes. Ok, those are the rules, but in reality, she's of no importance and she has no real mandate.
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:15 pm

TheHero wrote:

Brexit, Trump and now this.. what is wrong with the World?


You make it sound as if Brexit is a bad thing; thankfully, the majority of those who voted disagreed with you. This is merely the beginning - others will follow.
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:25 pm

fairydandy wrote:

I couldn't care less if Scotland leave, in fact, the sooner the better, but to pretend that this is about them wanting to stay in the EU is insulting. This is about personal power for her and it's about her hatred of the English. I think she's a manipulative, miserable, power crazed dwarf and I won't be changing that view anytime soon. ;)


Absolutely.

She is a repulsive woman. Rab C. Nesbitt and the HeShe from The Krankies must have had a little fumble some time ago and produced this hairy troll.
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby bigV » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:30 pm

fairydandy wrote:
Oret wrote:
It's a bit like if the EU now decided to give the UK anything they wanted, and the Brexiters refusing another referendum.


You shouldn't keep having referenda until you get the 'right' result, that's not democracy, that's manipulation.


Out of curiousity, what does it take to amend the UK Constitution? In my country, a 2/3 majority of Parliament is required to call a special (Great) Parliament, and only that body has the authority to make amendments. But it all begins with a 2/3 majority.

A simple majority (50% + 1 vote) seems irresponsible for a decision of this magnitude.

V.
 
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Re: In the news today

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:17 pm

At our last election in the UK, many people were calling for a referendum to decide on the country's future as regards the EU. So much so, that a lot of people said they were willing to vote for UKIP, just to get that possibility. As a result, the Conservative Party agreed that as part of their manifesto they would give people that chance.

As regards a referendum, who votes what where, doesn't really matter, as it was the total number of votes for versus the total number of votes against. One side only needed one more vote than the other.

Elections in this country are done a different way. Where you live is sectioned off into constituencies, and you vote for a member of Parliament to represent your constituancy. Therefore it's the number of MPs that go to make the party in power. As one constituancy might have a half a million voters, another might only have 200,000, which means it's theoretically possible for a party to get in power with less votes than the party who finished second.

Hence fd saying that UKIP got four million votes total, but only one seat in Parliament. The Scottish National Party got considerably less votes that UKIP, but got, I don't know, 50+ seats in Parliament, because of the number of people in their constituencies.
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Re: In the news today

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:30 pm

If Scotland votes out of the U.K., what have they then got to do?

Sort out what currency they're going to go forward with, because currently their Sterling is underwritten by the Bank Of England, it won't be if they become independent. Would they be allowed to join the Euro? Could they get in at an exchange rate that would be beneficial to Scotland? I think if it got to that point, Scotland would be over a barrel, and not have any choice, they'd have to take what ever they were offered.

Because currently, all the UK's contributions to the EU are paid by Westminster, assuming the EU wants to allow a splinter nation from the UK to remain, they are going to have to negotiate their own contribution fees, nobody knows how much they will be yet, or where the money is coming from to pay for them.

With a good chance that the EU might not let Scotland on its own be a member state, and Scotland deciding to be independent from the rest of the U.K., they might find out very quickly what it's like to be isolated.
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Re: In the news today

Postby fairydandy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:05 pm

bigV wrote:Out of curiousity, what does it take to amend the UK Constitution? In my country, a 2/3 majority of Parliament is required to call a special (Great) Parliament, and only that body has the authority to make amendments. But it all begins with a 2/3 majority.

A simple majority (50% + 1 vote) seems irresponsible for a decision of this magnitude.

V.


We don't have a written constitution, as such.

Why is a simple majority irresponsible? Is it because the 'wrong' side won?

You have to understand Vlad, that the British people are not anti-Europe, but they are pretty much anti-EU. The freedom of movement issue is what finally killed it off. It's a nonsense to have freedom of movement when all of the countries involved have differing wealth, health care, benefits and opportunities.

Oh, for sure, it's great meeting different people from all over Europe, it enriches us, it makes life more interesting, but whilst there is this wealth difference, how on earth can it work? Everyone wants to go to the rich countries and no one wants to go the poor ones. Yeah, I get it, so would I, but this country doesn't feel like it's 'ours' anymore. We're losing our identity to the point that if you see an England flag waving in England, you now think the person who put it up is a racist!
 
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