Slutwalk

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Do you think women are partly to blame if they are assaulted when dressed provocatively?

Yes
3
12%
No
23
88%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: Slutwalk

Postby Taryn » Wed Jun 15, 2011 1:29 pm

The original article in the local newspaper.

http://menmedia.co.uk/manchesterevening ... t-you-wear

When talking about his personal experience, I notice his main concern about the consequences of his actions were for himself and his career and nothing about the woman involved. What a despicable man!
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby play it cool » Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:14 am

play it cool wrote:
icy wrote:If Atagore comitted the same crimes in his own country, I wonder what punishment (if any) he would be facing?


The girls would probably be punished for having sex outside marriage.


Yep...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13760895
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Dusty » Fri Jul 01, 2011 8:34 am

Delilah wrote:That's the fucking problem with this almost global concept that women are property and not fellow human beings and that he would have ANY say whatsoever in what another human being chooses to wear. Asshole. Like I say, it's not what we wear, it's whether or not we're viewed as equals.


LG's comments about the Muslim guy shouting at the woman wearing shorts has also highlighted the irony about all this, somewhat. On one hand, we condemn Muslim fundies' attitudes towards women, how they will get stoned for something they were blameless for, and how we condemn them for insisting their women wear niqabs, hijabs and burkhas, yet on the other, it's inferred in this thread by some that women shouldn't wear provocative or skimpy clothes either, or that in given situations they are somehow partly to blame if they are sexually assaulted because they somehow 'provoked' the men who did it. Either the woman should be free to dress how she pleases, or she should cover everything up- you can't have it both ways.

All I can say is, what monumental double standards so many men have. If you don't want women to dress how they want, and you don't want them to wear bags over their heads, what the hell DO you want women to do? In both instances, women would be a million times better off if men just learned to behave like civilised human beings instead of lust-crazed animals.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Tero! » Tue Jul 12, 2011 8:42 pm

Dusty wrote:Either the woman should be free to dress how she pleases, or she should cover everything up- you can't have it both ways.


With the freedom to dress as you like, you have to accept the responsibility to dress according to situation.
In all its simplicity, you can either stand out or blend in.

A sensible woman would dress like the locals whe she's in Middle East, unless she wants to draw attention to herself. Just like dressing provocatively in your home town, it's a calculated risk because everybody should be aware that drawing more attention also means drawing more negative attention.

That's a fact of life, and everybody should be made aware of it.
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Delilah » Wed Jul 13, 2011 2:58 am

Tero! wrote:
Dusty wrote:Either the woman should be free to dress how she pleases, or she should cover everything up- you can't have it both ways.


With the freedom to dress as you like, you have to accept the responsibility to dress according to situation.
In all its simplicity, you can either stand out or blend in.

A sensible woman would dress like the locals whe she's in Middle East, unless she wants to draw attention to herself. Just like dressing provocatively in your home town, it's a calculated risk because everybody should be aware that drawing more attention also means drawing more negative attention.

That's a fact of life, and everybody should be made aware of it.


Define "negative attention".
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Tero! » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:05 am

Delilah wrote:
Tero! wrote:
Dusty wrote:Either the woman should be free to dress how she pleases, or she should cover everything up- you can't have it both ways.


With the freedom to dress as you like, you have to accept the responsibility to dress according to situation.
In all its simplicity, you can either stand out or blend in.

A sensible woman would dress like the locals whe she's in Middle East, unless she wants to draw attention to herself. Just like dressing provocatively in your home town, it's a calculated risk because everybody should be aware that drawing more attention also means drawing more negative attention.

That's a fact of life, and everybody should be made aware of it.


Define "negative attention".


Negative attention is when people on the streets stop to stare at you, point you out to their friends, take photos to ridicule you online, yell obscenities at you, throw garbage at you, start to chase you down the street, punch you in the face, beat the living shit out of you, shoot you because you look funny.
And pick you as a "random" rape victim.

If you want to avoid being singled out for the negative attention (as well as the positive), you can always avoid being noticed. It's your personal choice.
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Dusty » Wed Jul 13, 2011 6:43 am

With all due respect, I think you're talking bollocks. There are a few people who get 'negative attention' on this very site, yet have done nothing particular to court it. The simple fact is that people are like sheep, and will automatically take a dislike for anything out of their comfort zone. When they're on their own, they'll ignore it, but when they're in company, they'll go out of their way to mock, bait, hate or rip the piss. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the victim 'asking' for what they get, and EVERYTHING to do with the aggressor's fragile sense of self-respect (Usually because they secretly wish they could have the courage to be openly like the person they're mocking) that results in a desperate need to be accepted within their peer group at any cost. That's why bullies always work in packs, because they're gutless. They can't put their own sense of self-worth above the herd mentality.

Everyone has the right to be the person they want to be, free from attack or molestation. People who can't accept that should either work out their own self-esteem issues and tell their peers to get a life, or they should just learn to STFU.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby icy » Wed Jul 13, 2011 7:59 am

Agree so much with you, Dusty.
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Tero! » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:29 am

Dusty wrote:Everyone has the right to be the person they want to be, free from attack or molestation. People who can't accept that should either work out their own self-esteem issues and tell their peers to get a life, or they should just learn to STFU.


I really, really hope the world was the kind of happy place you dream of.

Unfortunately it doesn't work according to those ideals, and I would rather take any reasonable precaution instead of telling myself (or the people close to me) that I'm free to do whatever I want, and nobody is allowed to hurt me.
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Dusty » Wed Jul 13, 2011 10:53 am

I would sooner have that ideal to work towards than have a world where everyone dresses in grey rags and mindlessly follows the crowd for fear of being different. That's how the word should be, and that's how it is when human society works at its' best. If there were no individuals or mavericks, no brilliant discoveries would be made, no inventions would be created, and there'd be no great music, art or literature. No Freddie Mercury, no Lady Ga Ga, no Einstein, no Newton, no Van Goch, Picasso, Dickens, Chaucer or Shakespeare, and you may as well be dead, because that isn't living.

And going back on topic, NO-ONE asks or deserves to be attacked, especially women. You're inferring that women should be dressed in Burkhas in order to keep men calm. What, you can't see an attractive girl walking down the street without being COMPELLED to rape her? That's the kind of bullshit excuse the Taliban would come out with. Rape has f*ck all to do with sex, and everything to do with power- most women that are raped have been attacked by people they knew- their attacker didn't accept their boundaries or that no meant no, so the rape became more of a 'f*ck you, I AM going to get what I want whether you like it or not'. Those that were raped by strangers are usually targetted because they look vulnerable- NOT because they look 'slutty', or because they are gay, and the rape is meted out as a punishment or 'correction', not because the women fired her attackers up with lust. FFS, get this caveman reasoning out of your bloody head because it's so far removed from actual modern reality that it belongs a couple of centuries ago- it's an excuse peddled by men to blaim their own failure to exercise self-control on the woman.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Delilah » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:34 am

Tero! wrote:Negative attention is when people on the streets stop to stare at you, point you out to their friends, take photos to ridicule you online, yell obscenities at you, throw garbage at you, start to chase you down the street, punch you in the face, beat the living shit out of you, shoot you because you look funny.
And pick you as a "random" rape victim.

If you want to avoid being singled out for the negative attention (as well as the positive), you can always avoid being noticed. It's your personal choice.


If I look so damned hot that people on the streets stop to stare at me and point me out to their friends, that's a compliment. Can't say that's ever happened, no matter how good I thought I looked before I left the house or how big my boobs are. Well no, I have had the boobs stared at obsessively even without showing an inch of cleavage. I have been pointed out because I've got large breasts. I have been identified as "Lori, you know, the one with the huge tits". Even with all that unasked for attention that results simply for being who I am physically, I have never been accosted or raped over it. The one time I was raped was by someone I knew and it was more "I'm going to get it whether you want to have sex with me or not" and I was dressed in a typical t-shirt and jeans without even having tried to look attractive. You are not being even close to realistic. Guys talk a lot of shit when they see a girl out in public who looks hot, but they don't generally do anything about it. Guys who know you and whom you trust enough to invite into your home are the ones who will rape you. The more realistic way to avoid rape is to avoid ever being in the presence of a man and to never ever ever trust one. That isn't really fair or workable in society, however, so we're stuck with the risk of being raped. Unattractive girls are raped all over the world. It didn't happen because "wow, she is so hot. I can't contain my cock." It happened because she was seen as an easy mark, and it didn't matter what she was wearing at the time.

It is not my personal choice to be female, nor is it my personal choice to share space with men on this planet. Those are my major risk factors for being raped. It is my personal choice to have men as friends and not avoid male family members, so maybe that's where you can reasonably place "personal choice" as a contributing factor to rape. All this worry about what a woman wears has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not she will be raped in her lifetime.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby icy » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:53 am

Dusty, I wish and hope more men~correction people as a whole~felt the same way as you do...thank you for great posts in this thread :bigups:. Dee, thanks for great posts as well :bigups:. I would say there is much more to you than your cup size, but anyone who has taken the time to read your posts already know that. It galls me the 'excuses' that some people come up with as a 'reason' for rape.
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Dusty » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:00 pm

Unfortunately, most of the men that think like I do, became that way because someone they loved was a victim. Would that it were different.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby icy » Wed Jul 13, 2011 12:06 pm

Some men turn very bitter after it happens to one of their loved ones, there is no right or wrong way to feel afterwards. You are a good guy Dusty, that much is clear too. Take of yourself.
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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And the wounded skies above say it's much too late

      
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Barbarella » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:33 pm

There will be a Slutwalk in Reykjavík on July 23rd. I will be there. :)
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