Slutwalk

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Do you think women are partly to blame if they are assaulted when dressed provocatively?

Yes
3
12%
No
23
88%
 
Total votes : 26

Re: Slutwalk

Postby JLP » Wed Jul 13, 2011 3:16 pm

I agree, why should people conform. Of course it is difficult because there are sexual predators out there but they are the problem.
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby icy » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:14 am

LG, a question (you don't have to answer.) In your travels, have you ever felt unsafe?
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Delilah » Thu Jul 14, 2011 1:37 am

Lady Godiva wrote:The simple fact of the matter is that some men see women as their own personal property that they can do what they like with. Some men can’t control their animal instincts. Some men don’t see women as human beings with feelings, they see them as objects that they must conquer and control and destroy. What men who are capable of rape don’t see is a mini skirt or a scarf or a pair of trousers.


So incredibly true.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Tero! » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:26 am

Delilah wrote:It is not my personal choice to be female, nor is it my personal choice to share space with men on this planet. Those are my major risk factors for being raped. It is my personal choice to have men as friends and not avoid male family members, so maybe that's where you can reasonably place "personal choice" as a contributing factor to rape. All this worry about what a woman wears has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not she will be raped in her lifetime.


The #1 situation where women get raped in Finland (or at least report the rape) is after a night in the bar, with a man they've just met. Should I go out to tell them there's absolutely nothing they can do, or should I tell them that they are contributing to the risk by

1) going home with a man they've just met
2) being too drunk to know what's going on
3) intentionally going out to draw the attention of the opposite sex



I really do wish I could say there's nothing the victims could have done for those circumstances, but it's just not true. :?
< the above message is the author's personal opinion, and does not necessarily represent the opinion of every person on this message board >
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Dusty » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:58 am

That's such a typically male defence, that it's become the standard one used by defence lawyers in rape cases. rather than establish their client's innocence by actually proving they weren't there or didn't do it, they instead do their damnedest to destroy the character of the rape victim, so the poor woman has to not only endure the rape by said neanderthal, but also have her lifestyle, morals, habits and anything else subject to scrutiny by the slimeball her attacker has hired to get him off. It then becomes a case where he's usually given a significantly reduced sentence, if at all, because she's either :
a) habitually drunk and therefore incapable of knowing what she actually wants most of the time,
b) always dressing provocatively and therefore enticing the men,
c) had several boyfriends- mostly of a casual basis- thus proving she can't keep her legs together.

The poor woman has then been given the label of 'asking for it', which she never deserved, and NEVER ONCE is it ever brought up that she said 'no' to her attacker, and the bastard didn't listen.

That last point is THE MOST IMPORTANT ONE OF THE LOT. I don't care if she was stark naked, dressed in a purple tutu or whistling f*cking Dixie, if she said NO, then it should mean NO. If men could only understand this one simple f*cking word, we wouldn't even be here arguing this point.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Dusty » Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:59 am

Tero! wrote:I really do wish I could say there's nothing the victims could have done for those circumstances, but it's just not true. :?


They've all said 'no', and that is plenty enough, so long as the moron who attacked them can understand the meaning of the word. What do you want- women to become burkha-wearing, teetotal nuns in chastity belts?
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby icy » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:14 am

Wow...or rather yikes at your way of thinking Tero. :shock: :dontgetit.
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~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Delilah » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:21 am

Tero! wrote:The #1 situation where women get raped in Finland (or at least report the rape) is after a night in the bar, with a man they've just met. Should I go out to tell them there's absolutely nothing they can do, or should I tell them that they are contributing to the risk by

1) going home with a man they've just met
2) being too drunk to know what's going on
3) intentionally going out to draw the attention of the opposite sex



I really do wish I could say there's nothing the victims could have done for those circumstances, but it's just not true. :?


Let's just say that you have a woman who likes to sometimes go to a bar, drink, flirt with men, and have one-night-stands. In the year 2011, how is this unacceptable behavior for a woman? It isn't as if she's looking for nonconsensual sex. She's certainly not getting into bed all by herself, there are men who are more than thrilled that this is what she does on the weekend. What you are suggesting is that women who do exactly what many many men regularly do should curb her appetites because someone somewhere might be a rapist. Yes indeed, she could avoid that risk factor by being a good little chaste girl and never drinking, flirting, or having casual sex. Hooray for feminism. For me personally, I could have avoided rape by not trusting a guy who seemed to be a really nice person over the year that I'd known him while he was my best friend's boyfriend. After all, he never hurt her and they broke up without any drama or fanfare. I could have refused to drink in his presence because he had a penis. I could have refused him entry into my home, because he had a penis. I could have avoided rape by being quite incredibly sexist and making some very offensive judgements about his moral character simply due to his gender. I had absolutely no reason based on his personality to think that he would do that to me.

I will grant you that it is a reality that women have to view every man as a potential rapist to really cut down their risk. That isn't saying something about our own behavior, however. That is saying something about men, don't you think? But we don't focus on that. We focus on "Was she drinking? What was she wearing? Did she flirt with him?". Unless the male/woman dynamic needs to be viewed in the context of predator vs prey, this is not a helpful or productive angle to come at it with. And I know some really incredible people who happen to be male. I don't want to miss out on knowing these people because I put them all in the "might rape me so always be on your guard" box due to them being male. How about we just try to view people as people, and lay the blame where it belongs...on the person who did the assaulting, not the person who trusted them enough to give them the opportunity?
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Dusty » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:30 am

I really wish there was an applauding smilie.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby icy » Thu Jul 14, 2011 11:57 am

Don't we all just admire Dee...powerful post.
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby JLP » Thu Jul 14, 2011 2:52 pm

Delilah wrote:
Tero! wrote:The #1 situation where women get raped in Finland (or at least report the rape) is after a night in the bar, with a man they've just met. Should I go out to tell them there's absolutely nothing they can do, or should I tell them that they are contributing to the risk by

1) going home with a man they've just met
2) being too drunk to know what's going on
3) intentionally going out to draw the attention of the opposite sex



I really do wish I could say there's nothing the victims could have done for those circumstances, but it's just not true. :?


Let's just say that you have a woman who likes to sometimes go to a bar, drink, flirt with men, and have one-night-stands. In the year 2011, how is this unacceptable behavior for a woman? It isn't as if she's looking for nonconsensual sex. She's certainly not getting into bed all by herself, there are men who are more than thrilled that this is what she does on the weekend. What you are suggesting is that women who do exactly what many many men regularly do should curb her appetites because someone somewhere might be a rapist. Yes indeed, she could avoid that risk factor by being a good little chaste girl and never drinking, flirting, or having casual sex. Hooray for feminism. For me personally, I could have avoided rape by not trusting a guy who seemed to be a really nice person over the year that I'd known him while he was my best friend's boyfriend. After all, he never hurt her and they broke up without any drama or fanfare. I could have refused to drink in his presence because he had a penis. I could have refused him entry into my home, because he had a penis. I could have avoided rape by being quite incredibly sexist and making some very offensive judgements about his moral character simply due to his gender. I had absolutely no reason based on his personality to think that he would do that to me.

I will grant you that it is a reality that women have to view every man as a potential rapist to really cut down their risk. That isn't saying something about our own behavior, however. That is saying something about men, don't you think? But we don't focus on that. We focus on "Was she drinking? What was she wearing? Did she flirt with him?". Unless the male/woman dynamic needs to be viewed in the context of predator vs prey, this is not a helpful or productive angle to come at it with. And I know some really incredible people who happen to be male. I don't want to miss out on knowing these people because I put them all in the "might rape me so always be on your guard" box due to them being male. How about we just try to view people as people, and lay the blame where it belongs...on the person who did the assaulting, not the person who trusted them enough to give them the opportunity?


As you are no longer admin on here, I am free to agree wholeheartedly with this post.
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby JLP » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:28 am

My daughter is now 18. She has a pen pal who is German but lives in the States and earlier this week she flew to Germany to meet him and his family.

I was, as you can imagine, fairly anxious about this. We have all read and heard the horror stories about the net. She went with our blessing of course but on the condition that she contacted us once she arrived so we were reasurred that she was OK.

Would it really be fair to say that her actions put her at risk? She is a young woman who is free to make her own choices and those choices should not have to be affected by others whose standards are different to ours. We cannot wrap her in cotton wool all her life.
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby Delilah » Fri Jul 15, 2011 2:37 am

JLP wrote:My daughter is now 18. She has a pen pal who is German but lives in the States and earlier this week she flew to Germany to meet him and his family.

I was, as you can imagine, fairly anxious about this. We have all read and heard the horror stories about the net. She went with our blessing of course but on the condition that she contacted us once she arrived so we were reasurred that she was OK.

Would it really be fair to say that her actions put her at risk? She is a young woman who is free to make her own choices and those choices should not have to be affected by others whose standards are different to ours. We cannot wrap her in cotton wool all her life.


Of course it's risky. Unfortunately, and it severely pains me to say this as I also have a daughter, there is no way to protect her from being raped. Anything she does that involves men puts her at risk. Most men aren't that shitty, thankfully, and she should not feel that she has to live her life fearing and mistrusting half the people on this planet. We have to live our lives. Who can be happy living a life of fear? This guy might be someone whom she'll be forever grateful to have had in her life. If she didn't take the risk of meeting him, she could be missing out on a great person. She could be missing out on a really exciting experience that she'll never forget. You can tailor your life to remove as much risk as possible, or you can truly live. Those are the choices.
 
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby icy » Fri Jul 15, 2011 3:03 am

Cleary you trust your daughter JLP, and thats a good thing. Hopefully she has or if she is still there enjoying herself. I admit when I spoke to my family about my UK trip that I was planning they were concerned, and I am not 18 :lookround: . I think they were almost happy when I had to cancel the plans. A parent will always will be a parent!
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
icy
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Re: Slutwalk

Postby JLP » Fri Jul 15, 2011 6:05 am

icy wrote:Cleary you trust your daughter JLP, and thats a good thing. Hopefully she has or if she is still there enjoying herself. I admit when I spoke to my family about my UK trip that I was planning they were concerned, and I am not 18 :lookround: . I think they were almost happy when I had to cancel the plans. A parent will always will be a parent!



She comes back this afternoon. Hopefully with a litre of Southern Comfort for her lovely dad. :lol:
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