The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

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The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 20, 2011 2:25 pm

bigV wrote:
Kes wrote:I can travel to any one of about 20 different countries, most of which speak completely different languages, and live and work completely legally, without ANY visas, paperwork, or anything else. People slag it off, but it's called the EEC.


Is it? :shock:

Lots of Brits living in Bulgaria these days. There's even an English Pub about 30 km from where I live. Nice folks, absolutely in love with Bulgaria.

Off-topic, sorry.

V.



The bit I was referring to, wasn't where people settle, but have free access to living and working in other countries without the need for visas, or any other permissions. EEC member states by law, can't stop members from other EEC member states either trading, or working within their borders, no matter how many of them there are, or who it pisses off by them doing it. Consequently, lots of Brits work in Germany, lots of Poles work in Britain. People can complain about being in the EEC, but the only way anyone can stop it, is to get out of the union. I think given what's happened recently with Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland, then joining it in the future, might get a bit trickier.
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Re: Queenextravaganza

Postby bigV » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:07 pm

Kes wrote:The bit I was referring to, wasn't where people settle, but have free access to living and working in other countries without the need for visas, or any other permissions. EEC member states by law, can't stop members from other EEC member states either trading, or working within their borders, no matter how many of them there are, or who it pisses off by them doing it. Consequently, lots of Brits work in Germany, lots of Poles work in Britain. People can complain about being in the EEC, but the only way anyone can stop it, is to get out of the union. I think given what's happened recently with Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland, then joining it in the future, might get a bit trickier.


If history has taught us anything it should be that we're stronger together than apart. Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal and Ireland will weather this storm with help from the rest of us. And next time, God forbid, similar situations might occur in the UK, France, Germany, Poland and Bulgaria (for example!).

I used this quote a couple of days ago and I think it bears repeating: "If your neighbor's house is on fire, you don't haggle over the price of your garden hose." - FDR

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Re: Queenextravaganza

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:23 pm

That really depends whether your neighbour is a pyromaniac or not. :shock:

I think the fact is, that everybody's struggling, and some people's issues with Italy, Greece, Ireland, Spain and Portugal, is that where others are showing they're struggling having a go at fixing their leaks, some are carrying on just staring at the holes in their boat, knowing some other f*cker will bale the water out for them.
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Re: Queenextravaganza

Postby bigV » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:30 pm

I suppose you're right (shouldn't we split the political discussion - we're flooding this thread with off-topic conversation, albeit interesting). Somehow Greece managed to accumulate over 300 billion Euro in debt. How does a country do that? I can't even imagine that kind of money...

I heard some disturbing news a few hours ago - it seems Northern Italy has expressed wishes to secede from the South. Northerners are calling for a referendum on the matter. Can you imagine what that would do to the greater EU economy?

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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:42 pm

Overall, I think the "EC" is a good thing.

In a recession though, it's a bit of a nightmare. It's a bit like the UN member states looking inwards, seeing that certain countries aren't pulling their weight, while other countries have loads of their guys out somewhere dodgy as peacekeepers getting blown up and shipped home in packing crates.

My fear is unless the countries in the crap, appreciate it's more about learning to swim themselves, rather than getting rescued, and then as soon as the tide comes back up, getting rescued again, then they'll wind up dragging everybody under.
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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby bigV » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:04 pm

Don't get me started on the UN can of worms...

I also think that the EC/EU is a good thing. I think we've taken the best from the American experiment and we decided to take our time with it in order to build an "even more perfect union". And as you said elsewhere, we are all in this for the long run. And I want to reiterate what I said earlier - in ten years' time it could very well be Greece's turn to rescue Germany from a financial crisis. 15 years ago Greece's economy was booming and Bulgaria's was in shambles. Today - Greece is on the verge of financial meltdown while two months ago Bulgaria had its credit rating raised by Moody's. It's a rapidly-changing world in which we live. That's all the more reason that the EU must survive.

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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:15 pm

If Germany ever gets to the point it looks like it's going under, it would be like standing on the summit of Everest, up to your neck in water, wondering how the Dutch are doing. Every other f*cker has either drowned or is swimming for their lives.

I've always found it ironic that for most of my life, two of the strongest and most economically sound countries on the planet, were Germany and Japan, and both countries share something in common from about 75 years ago. They were decimated, and had just came joint second in a major and very violent conflict. Taking THAT into account, it makes you wonder at what point Italy dropped the ball.
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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby bigV » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:22 pm

Kes wrote:If Germany ever gets to the point it looks like it's going under, it would be like standing on the summit of Everest, up to your neck in water, wondering how the Dutch are doing. Every other f*cker has either drowned or is swimming for their lives.


Just five years ago Ireland had the most booming economy in Europe, possibly the world. That's what I'm talking about - things change. I know it's unlikely that Greece's problems could plausibly plague Germany at some point in the future, but there's no way we could know that, is there? Don't forget that school of thought that says that economists were put on this planet to make weather forecasters look good...

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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:27 pm

In retrospect, we can see it was just a big F-off facade. The money going round their system was monopoly (reg TM) currency and didn't really exist, it was a big array of numbers that they never actually had.

If you want to know who's subbed this debt that's now crippling Europe and the US, then look no further than a very "Capitalist" communist country, that also has some of the most popular cuisine on the planet. I'll give you a clue: Chopsticks!

Considering everyone's meant to be equal there, some have proved themselves considerably more equal than others, with private business jets, and a fleet of Maybachs to take them from their massive houses to their private jets.
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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby bigV » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:29 pm

Kes wrote:In retrospect, we can see it was just a big F-off facade. The money going round their system was monopoly (reg TM) currency and didn't really exist, it was a big array of numbers that they never actually had.


Enron on a national scale? :shock:

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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:30 pm

Not national, GLOBAL.
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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:34 pm

Last year, I went on holiday to Switzerland. 1.80CHF to £1 Sterling. This year 1.20CHF to each £1 Sterling.

The Swiss aren't apparently rocking in this storm at all. The reason, I think is because they've been clever enough to bank everybody else's money, not f*cking borrow it, and spend it.
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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby bigV » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:39 pm

Kes wrote:Last year, I went on holiday to Switzerland. 1.80CHF to £1 Sterling. This year 1.20CHF to each £1 Sterling.

The Swiss aren't apparently rocking in this storm at all. The reason, I think is because they've been clever enough to bank everybody else's money, not f*cking borrow it, and spend it.


Around the time the Swiss were founding their banking system you guys were losing a war across the pond and we were desperately trying to organise a revolution that would liberate us from Ottoman rule. So, yeah - they had a major headstart.

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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby Kes » Tue Sep 20, 2011 6:44 pm

Let's also not forget that 5,000,000-ish people of a funny hat, winglet, and oy-vey persuasion, banked with your UBS's and Credit Suisse's, who due to someone else's master-plan, never came back to withdraw their money.

Behind them, you then had Adolf's top blokes doing EXACTLY the same, before half of them disappeared, either dead, or in eternal hiding.

That's more than a headstart, that's like one team having to do the 100m, while the other has to do the Golden Mile, both starting on the same gun.
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Re: The EC/EEC/Common Market (Split from Queenextravaganza)

Postby bigV » Tue Sep 20, 2011 7:10 pm

This is turning out to be the Kes & bigV show. To be continued...

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