American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Innuendoes » Tue May 04, 2010 4:10 am

Elessar wrote:It's not natural to live in Arizona or New Mexico.

It depends on what you mean by 'natural'. Almost everything humans do is unnatural - or, everything we do IS natural, by definition.


Now you're pulling my leg.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Belle Leisha » Tue May 04, 2010 4:10 am

Elessar wrote:
Man's age divided by 2, plus 7, innit?

One of the most unscientific yet strangely accurate rules I've heard.


Hah, I've never heard that before. No that doesn't work, I'm not 37 and Paul Rodgers is 60...that must be wrong. :P
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Elessar » Tue May 04, 2010 4:18 am

Innuendoes wrote:
Elessar wrote:It's not natural to live in Arizona or New Mexico.

It depends on what you mean by 'natural'. Almost everything humans do is unnatural - or, everything we do IS natural, by definition.


Now you're pulling my leg.


Well it depends on what 'natural' means. Humans evolved in Africa, so that's our natural climate. Okay, we've evolved as we've spread across the globe, and our skin got lighter as we moved further north, but there are some people living in conditions that they really haven't evolved for - Australia has one of the highest rates of skin cancer for that very reason.

The idea of anything being 'unnatural' doesn't really make sense. Anything humans do is natural, because we are part of nature.

Incest is perfectly natural. All animals do it. Society frowns upon it because we have such large, diverse populations that it's completely unnecessary and can produce children with abnormalities. That's the only reason why it's frowned upon.

I think it's really, really weird. Sickening, almost. But I can't condemn these two people. I don't think they're doing anything wrong.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Innuendoes » Tue May 04, 2010 4:25 am

Elessar wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:
Elessar wrote:It's not natural to live in Arizona or New Mexico.

It depends on what you mean by 'natural'. Almost everything humans do is unnatural - or, everything we do IS natural, by definition.


Now you're pulling my leg.


Well it depends on what 'natural' means. Humans evolved in Africa, so that's our natural climate. Okay, we've evolved as we've spread across the globe, and our skin got lighter as we moved further north, but there are some people living in conditions that they really haven't evolved for - Australia has one of the highest rates of skin cancer for that very reason.

The idea of anything being 'unnatural' doesn't really make sense. Anything humans do is natural, because we are part of nature.

Incest is perfectly natural. All animals do it. Society frowns upon it because we have such large, diverse populations that it's completely unnecessary and can produce children with abnormalities. That's the only reason why it's frowned upon.

I think it's really, really weird. Sickening, almost. But I can't condemn these two people. I don't think they're doing anything wrong.


Do you know how many Native American tribes come from Arizona? And what about New Mexico?

You tell the Navajo and Apache they don't belong there and see what happens. :-P

I have a niece living in Scottsdale, Arizona and another one living in the mountains in New Mexico. 8)

I don't believe all animals engage in incest. I think they have a natural instinct to produce stronger, more viable offspring, therefore, they choose outside their group if possible. I am not referring to domesticated dogs and cats, though.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Elessar » Tue May 04, 2010 4:28 am

Innuendoes wrote:Do you know how many Native American tribes come from Arizona? And what about New Mexico?

You tell the Navajo and Apache they don't belong there and see what happens. :-P

I have a niece living in Scottsdale, Arizona and another one living in the mountains in New Mexico. 8)

I don't believe all animals engage in incest. I think they have a natural instinct to produce stronger, more viable offspring, therefore, they choose outside their group if possible. I am not referring to domesticated dogs and cats, though.


I didn't say they don't belong there. I said it's not necessarily their 'natural' habitat. It depends on what 'natural' means. I think it means anything that humans do, so by definition it IS natural.

There are evolutionary reasons to breed with animals from different groups, yes, this is true. It's true of humans as well. But animals all engage in incest. They just do. It's a fact. Leave a male and a female together for long enough and they'll breed, whether they're unrelated, brother and sister, mother and son...it's what they do.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Innuendoes » Tue May 04, 2010 4:31 am

Elessar wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:Do you know how many Native American tribes come from Arizona? And what about New Mexico?

You tell the Navajo and Apache they don't belong there and see what happens. :-P

I have a niece living in Scottsdale, Arizona and another one living in the mountains in New Mexico. 8)

I don't believe all animals engage in incest. I think they have a natural instinct to produce stronger, more viable offspring, therefore, they choose outside their group if possible. I am not referring to domesticated dogs and cats, though.


I didn't say they don't belong there. I said it's not necessarily their 'natural' habitat. It depends on what 'natural' means. I think it means anything that humans do, so by definition it IS natural.

There are evolutionary reasons to breed with animals from different groups, yes, this is true. It's true of humans as well. But animals all engage in incest. They just do. It's a fact. Leave a male and a female together for long enough and they'll breed, whether they're unrelated, brother and sister, mother and son...it's what they do.


Pueblo, Zuni, Pima, Acoma.. none are directly from Africa, I guarantee it.

I also don't buy it that mother and son or father and daughter will automatically breed, no matter what. They MIGHT if they don't know they're related but if they were shipwrecked on an island in the Pacific or whatever, I doubt it.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Ace » Tue May 04, 2010 2:09 pm

Innuendoes wrote:

Pueblo, Zuni, Pima, Acoma.. none are directly from Africa, I guarantee it.



I think El meant that Modern humans originally came out of Africa and then diversified across the continents.

There are two theories about the origin of modern humans

1) they arose in one place — Africa and

2) pre-modern humans migrated from Africa to become modern humans in other parts of the world.

Most evidence points to the first theory because

• fossils of modern-like humans are found in Africa
• stone tools and other artifacts support African origin
• DNA studies suggest a founding population in Africa

So Pueblo, Zuni, Pima, Acoma are in effect originally descended from Africa, as are we all.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Elessar » Tue May 04, 2010 2:40 pm

Ace wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:

Pueblo, Zuni, Pima, Acoma.. none are directly from Africa, I guarantee it.



I think El meant that Modern humans originally came out of Africa and then diversified across the continents.

There are two theories about the origin of modern humans

1) they arose in one place — Africa and

2) pre-modern humans migrated from Africa to become modern humans in other parts of the world.

Most evidence points to the first theory because

• fossils of modern-like humans are found in Africa
• stone tools and other artifacts support African origin
• DNA studies suggest a founding population in Africa

So Pueblo, Zuni, Pima, Acoma are in effect originally descended from Africa, as are we all.


Exactly.
Perhaps more intriguing is the genetic evidence that only a small number of African tribes learnt to sail, and those people then spread all over the entire planet, while the rest stayed in Africa and populated that continent. There is more genetic diversity within Africa than in the whole of the rest of the world. In other words, two people from neighbouring villages in Kenya are more genetically different than a Frechman and a Chinaman.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Silver Rocker » Tue May 04, 2010 3:00 pm

I have no idea what the legal position is in the States, but the law in the UK prohibits marriage between a grandmother and her grandson, or between a grandfather and his granddaughter.

Marriage between cousins, though, is perfectly legal in the UK - as all fans of Jane Austen will know! :cool:
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Belle Leisha » Tue May 04, 2010 3:10 pm

Silver Rocker wrote:I have no idea what the legal position is in the States, but the law in the UK prohibits marriage between a grandmother and her grandson, or between a grandfather and his granddaughter.

Marriage between cousins, though, is perfectly legal in the UK - as all fans of Jane Austen will know! :cool:


Yeah I don't think they can get married. They're relationship doesn't seem to be against the law though. And in fairness, gay people can't get married in some American states either.
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Elessar » Tue May 04, 2010 3:12 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
Silver Rocker wrote:I have no idea what the legal position is in the States, but the law in the UK prohibits marriage between a grandmother and her grandson, or between a grandfather and his granddaughter.

Marriage between cousins, though, is perfectly legal in the UK - as all fans of Jane Austen will know! :cool:


Yeah I don't think they can get married. They're relationship doesn't seem to be against the law though. And in fairness, gay people can't get married in some American states either.


I don't think they can get married in ANY American states, can they?
They could in California for a while, until the morons voted to repeal the law.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Delilah » Tue May 04, 2010 3:55 pm

Elessar wrote:I don't think they can get married in ANY American states, can they?
They could in California for a while, until the morons voted to repeal the law.


They can in five states: Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Washington, DC. Well, five states and a district. None are recognized by the federal government, though.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Belle Leisha » Tue May 04, 2010 5:13 pm

Delilah wrote:
Elessar wrote:I don't think they can get married in ANY American states, can they?
They could in California for a while, until the morons voted to repeal the law.


They can in five states: Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Washington, DC. Well, five states and a district. None are recognized by the federal government, though.


Vote "Call Me Dave" here and we might get the same. :)

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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby Elessar » Tue May 04, 2010 5:47 pm

Delilah wrote:
Elessar wrote:I don't think they can get married in ANY American states, can they?
They could in California for a while, until the morons voted to repeal the law.


They can in five states: Connecticut, Iowa, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Washington, DC. Well, five states and a district. None are recognized by the federal government, though.


Is that 'marriage'? here we can have civil unions, but not marriage. You know, separate but equal. Like schools in the 60s.
 
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Re: American Grandmother to have baby with her grandson

Postby PTRACER » Tue May 04, 2010 5:52 pm

Elessar wrote:Well it depends on what 'natural' means. Humans evolved in Africa, so that's our natural climate. Okay, we've evolved as we've spread across the globe, and our skin got lighter as we moved further north, but there are some people living in conditions that they really haven't evolved for


So, literally speaking then, white people have evolved from black people?
 
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