Election 2010: The Results

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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby Elessar » Mon May 31, 2010 12:29 pm

Tero! wrote:
I'm neither a Tory nor Labour supporter (or a similar party in my native country), and I don't think that I'm hounding him in any way. What he did was wrong, and he accepted he was wrong. That's what it's all about, not who he happened to be living with. It's almost as if his boyfriend is used as an excuse to break the rules... "He's gay, so he must hide it from the public, even if that means breaking the rules!"

Is a gay politician even newsworthy in the UK anymore? :?


No it's not particularly newsworthy, but it can still be a difficult thing for individuals to deal with, especially if they or their parents are from an older generation that isn't quite so accepting. I don't think the point was that Laws was trying to hide his sexuality from the British public; I think he was trying to hide it from his colleagues, friends and even his family.

I wasn't saying you've hounded him - I'm talking more about the Telegragh (a Tory paper) that broke the story, and the Labour MPs who called for him to resign. Incidentally, the Telegraph investigated expenses months ago, and the subsequent enquiry scrutinised every MP. In other words, the Telegraph will have been well aware of Laws' expense record many months ago, and chose not to draw attention to it. Then, soon after his excellent performance in Commons, they ran the story about Laws. The timing is unfortunate at best, and very cynical at worst.
 
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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby Tero! » Mon May 31, 2010 3:17 pm

Elessar wrote:In other words, the Telegraph will have been well aware of Laws' expense record many months ago, and chose not to draw attention to it. Then, soon after his excellent performance in Commons, they ran the story about Laws. The timing is unfortunate at best, and very cynical at worst.


The timing is perfect for breaking the news.

Many months ago he was a minor member of an insignificant party, and today (or yesterday to be precise :-P ) he is a major member of a critical party. Before the elections he was a nobody, and after the elections his background was scrutinised more closely.

The good thing about British MPs is that they know when to resign.
Our politicians will stick to their seats like shit on the farmer's walls, regardless of whether they have had affairs or taken bribes from companies. And everybody always blames the media for hounding. :roll:
< the above message is the author's personal opinion, and does not necessarily represent the opinion of every person on this message board >
 
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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby Elessar » Mon May 31, 2010 3:26 pm

This is the kind of public spending scandal that we should be worrying about:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10196457.stm

As well as the £20million that the Pope's visit in September will cost.
£40,000 over 9 years for a dedicated public servant? That was an absolute bargain in comparison!
 
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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon May 31, 2010 4:17 pm

Elessar wrote:
But while you mention Lembit Opik - look how much he claimed, all within the rules:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstop ... enses.html

It's absolutely ridiculous that David Laws was hounde dout of his job for minimising his expenses. Absolutely ridiculous. But I guess all the Tory and Labour supporters sensed blood, and got it.


I'm a Lib Dem supporter and while I feel sorry for him, I'm not sure what other outcome he or anyone else could have expected. Some MPs claim absolutely ridiculous expenses, living in London in million pound + houses, is obviously far more of a rip off than David Laws, the public could certainly better spend their time getting angry about that than this one incident. The fact remains though that even he admitted to breaking the rules, yes you could argue he didn't, as such, but even he accepts that's not really relevant. While MPs expenses are under such scrutiny, an arrangement like that is obviously not advisable. I believe his motivation was to keep his private life private, but, there's no real reason he couldn't have done that without public money being involved at all. There's no moral issue with him doing it the way he did as he could certainly have claimed far more for an arrangement not involving anyone which would be seen as breaking the rules, but in terms of him losing his job, he knew the risks and got caught. All the way through the election they all said there would be zero tolerance in expenses, they can't just make an exception because on a relative scale his expenses weren't too bad and he was good at his job. If he'd been a position where he couldn't have known that being discovered would lead to him losing his job then I'd agree with you, but as he did know and that's what happened, it's sad certainly, but it's not wrong or at least, it was the only viable outcome.
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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby Elessar » Mon May 31, 2010 4:52 pm

The thing is though, The Telegraph presumably think they've won, anti-Lib Dem people think they've won, but in reality, the person who replaces David laws won't be as good as he is, and the real loser in all this is the UK.
 
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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon May 31, 2010 9:26 pm

Elessar wrote:This is the kind of public spending scandal that we should be worrying about:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10196457.stm

As well as the £20million that the Pope's visit in September will cost.
£40,000 over 9 years for a dedicated public servant? That was an absolute bargain in comparison!


Now where has £20million come from, last figures I saw on that were going to cost £8million!

There's no doubt at all that there are worse wastes of money or inappropriate use of public money, but since when did "there are other issues" ever stop people en masse zero-ing in on one single scandal and blowing it out of proportion? In this case, rules were broken, culprit was fired, the rules happening to be aimed in the wrong place as demonstrated by this case, doesn't really change that.

I totally agree the major loss is to the public, nothing new there either.
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Or else your hearts must have the courage, of the changing of the guard


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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby Elessar » Mon May 31, 2010 9:37 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
Elessar wrote:This is the kind of public spending scandal that we should be worrying about:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10196457.stm

As well as the £20million that the Pope's visit in September will cost.
£40,000 over 9 years for a dedicated public servant? That was an absolute bargain in comparison!


Now where has £20million come from, last figures I saw on that were going to cost £8million!

There's no doubt at all that there are worse wastes of money or inappropriate use of public money, but since when did "there are other issues" ever stop people en masse zero-ing in on one single scandal and blowing it out of proportion? In this case, rules were broken, culprit was fired, the rules happening to be aimed in the wrong place as demonstrated by this case, doesn't really change that.

I totally agree the major loss is to the public, nothing new there either.


Well, he wasn't actually fired, and by alla ccounts there was no real danger of him actually being fired.
 
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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby JLP » Mon May 31, 2010 9:45 pm

Elessar wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:
Elessar wrote:This is the kind of public spending scandal that we should be worrying about:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/10196457.stm

As well as the £20million that the Pope's visit in September will cost.
£40,000 over 9 years for a dedicated public servant? That was an absolute bargain in comparison!


Now where has £20million come from, last figures I saw on that were going to cost £8million!

There's no doubt at all that there are worse wastes of money or inappropriate use of public money, but since when did "there are other issues" ever stop people en masse zero-ing in on one single scandal and blowing it out of proportion? In this case, rules were broken, culprit was fired, the rules happening to be aimed in the wrong place as demonstrated by this case, doesn't really change that.

I totally agree the major loss is to the public, nothing new there either.


Well, he wasn't actually fired, and by alla ccounts there was no real danger of him actually being fired.



Maybe Cameron and Clegg are determined there will be no repeat of the sleaze that has been an issue with most recent governments. Maybe he realised that by resigning, he would send out a message that expenses will not be an issue again. If so, good for him and maybe, just maybe, one day he will return. Unless of course his sexuality becomes the overriding issue. Which it shouldn't.
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Re: Election 2010: The Results

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon May 31, 2010 9:50 pm

Elessar wrote:
Well, he wasn't actually fired, and by alla ccounts there was no real danger of him actually being fired.


Yes but then politicians rarely are, being forced out of a position is about the closest equivalent.
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Or else your hearts must have the courage, of the changing of the guard


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