Autism

This is the place for topical debate and discussion about anything in the world (non-Queen related).

Re: Autism

Postby Tarkus » Fri Jan 30, 2015 7:54 am

Elessar wrote:I'm sensing a change in attitude on this board. I approve!


I may have had the odd disagreement with you over one or two things but I've never been anti-vaxxing. Both my two are vaccinated, as am I. I personally think the anti-vaxxers are irresponsible and dangerous, and the recent outbreak of measles in Disneyworld kind of proves that point.
 
Tarkus
 
User avatar

 
 

Re: Autism

Postby Innuendoes » Fri Jan 30, 2015 9:55 am

Elessar wrote:I'm sensing a change in attitude on this board. I approve!


Actually, I think you might find only one person posting in this tread was against vaccinating. I wasn't that person, either. ;-)
 
Innuendoes
 
User avatar

 
 

Re: Autism

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:45 pm

Elessar wrote:I'm sensing a change in attitude on this board. I approve!


I've always been pro-vaccines but I refuse to be judgmental of these moms. I don't know what its like to have a child with autism. One thing that doesn't help is this parade of doctors and scientists and other experts who have been on tv giving judgmental and condescending lectures with their pompous attitudes. You can't call a fearful group stupid, this isn't the 1950s anymore. I would think getting the kids vaccinated is more important than being right. It also doesn't help that we don't have a Surgeon General because of Republican hatred for Obama. We don't even have a Dr. Spock like figure anymore
 
AutumnGirlLybbie
 
User avatar

 
 

Re: Autism

Postby Elessar » Fri Jan 30, 2015 6:56 pm

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
Elessar wrote:I'm sensing a change in attitude on this board. I approve!


I've always been pro-vaccines but I refuse to be judgmental of these moms. I don't know what its like to have a child with autism. One thing that doesn't help is this parade of doctors and scientists and other experts who have been on tv giving judgmental and condescending lectures with their pompous attitudes. You can't call a fearful group stupid, this isn't the 1950s anymore. I would think getting the kids vaccinated is more important than being right. It also doesn't help that we don't have a Surgeon General because of Republican hatred for Obama. We don't even have a Dr. Spock like figure anymore


Carrot has failed for years now; all that's left is the stick. People need to realise that this isn't about parental choice for their kids; their decisions impact the lives of other children who CANNOT be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. Those children's lives should not be put at risk because some parents are too stubborn to accept that they are not the experts. I think being judgemental is absolutely justified.

Imagine your child couldn't have a vaccination because, for example and heaven forbid, they had leukaemia. Now imagine they caught measles from another child who was perfectly healthy but whose parents decided it was their right to choose not to have him vaccinated. Would you feel judgemental then?

I know I've committed the cardinal error of bringing emotions into it, but I'm hoping it might make these risk and dangers a bit more tangible.
 
Elessar
I Want To Break Free
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 11022
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:35 pm
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 172 times

Re: Autism

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:48 pm

Seems to me you're still more interested in being right above all else. We've got to be more understanding of the mindset of those against vaccines. Only then can we convince those people vaccines are safe and they will bring their kids in to be vaccinated. Having some doctor on tv looking down his nose at the camera saying there is no evidence vaccines cause autism has been done over and over again and its not working. I don't have the answer but that clearly isn't it and some other approach needs to be tried.
 
AutumnGirlLybbie
 
User avatar

 
 

Re: Autism

Postby Elessar » Fri Jan 30, 2015 8:57 pm

I'm not bothered about being right. I know I'm right and don't need to be reassured of this fact by others. If I need my car fixing, I trust the mechanic and trust that he knows my car better than I do, even though I'm the one that drives it. I'm not bothered by people not believing me; I'm bothered by them putting young humans at considerable risk.

Incidentally, whenever anyone says "I know my own body!", I wish I could say "Oh really? Point to your spleen then.".
 
Elessar
I Want To Break Free
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 11022
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:35 pm
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 172 times

Re: Autism

Postby Tarkus » Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:51 pm

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote: I don't have the answer but that clearly isn't it and some other approach needs to be tried.


Maybe taking some of these anti-vaxxers to attend the funerals of children dying from measles? Andrew Wakefield's report has been disproved and discredited so many times, and even magicians Penn and Teller have explained it in terms that ordinary people can understand- the only thing that's stopping these people from vaxxing now is their own stubbornness, and now measles cases are on the up and children are dying. Some children RELY on vaccinated kids, as the philosophy of 'herd immunisation' protects them- for whatever reasons, a few can't have vaccinations, such as leukaemia or other conditions, and if most other kids are vaccinated, they are less likely to contract measles because none of the other kids will have it. Now we have vast swathes of kids unvaccinated, so measles will spread amongst them, so at-risk kids won't now be protected.
 
Tarkus
 
User avatar

 
 

Re: Autism

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:16 am

And the problem has nothing to do with Republicans. It has to do with people spreading rumors and scaring parents into believing their child will become autistic if they get the vaccination. That and a few doctors out there being publicized in the spotlight, scaring the heck out of parents.
 
Innuendoes
 
User avatar

 
 

Re: Autism

Postby julymorning » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:53 am

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:Seems to me you're still more interested in being right above all else. We've got to be more understanding of the mindset of those against vaccines. Only then can we convince those people vaccines are safe and they will bring their kids in to be vaccinated. Having some doctor on tv looking down his nose at the camera saying there is no evidence vaccines cause autism has been done over and over again and its not working. I don't have the answer but that clearly isn't it and some other approach needs to be tried.


Elessar has the advantage in being able to see the whole picture, whereas a set of parents or a parent does not. They generally can't see, or don't care to see, beyond their own family. Do you honestly believe he would prefer to be right at the expense of health and lives?

Does anyone one if there has ever been a diagnosis of autism amongst the Christian Scientists population? I'm assuming they do not have their children vaccinated.
.It is my uppermost hope that even histories' genius's lost their minds as they aged. I'd hate to think that I really am an idiot. sjm
 
julymorning
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 

This is probably as good as it gets.

      
 
Posts: 1676
Images: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Missouri, U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Has thanked: 427 times
Been thanked: 229 times

Re: Autism

Postby julymorning » Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:58 am

Hah! Great minds think alike! I googled my question, and found a physician once asked the same question. I wonder if the answer has been found yet?

"r. Raymond Carlson, O.D. // Aug 3, 2008 at 10:24 pm

With regards to the “vaccines and autism debate”, it seems that opponents of Christian Scientists (not vaccinating their children) always bring up the fact that the unvaccinated children (of Christian Scientists) are getting preventable diseases like measles, diptheria, etc. The real issue is WHAT IS THE INCIDENCE OF AUTISM IN THIS GROUP OF CHILDREN?????
At the very least, the rates of autism in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups could be analyzed and compared. If the rates of autism are similar, we all have our answer. If the rates are quite different (to a statistically significant degree) researchers can then begin looking for a cause for the difference."
.It is my uppermost hope that even histories' genius's lost their minds as they aged. I'd hate to think that I really am an idiot. sjm
 
julymorning
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 

This is probably as good as it gets.

      
 
Posts: 1676
Images: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Missouri, U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Has thanked: 427 times
Been thanked: 229 times

Re: Autism

Postby icy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:12 am

julymorning wrote:
AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:Seems to me you're still more interested in being right above all else. We've got to be more understanding of the mindset of those against vaccines. Only then can we convince those people vaccines are safe and they will bring their kids in to be vaccinated. Having some doctor on tv looking down his nose at the camera saying there is no evidence vaccines cause autism has been done over and over again and its not working. I don't have the answer but that clearly isn't it and some other approach needs to be tried.


Elessar has the advantage in being able to see the whole picture, whereas a set of parents or a parent does not. They generally can't see, or don't care to see, beyond their own family. Do you honestly believe he would prefer to be right at the expense of health and lives?

Does anyone one if there has ever been a diagnosis of autism amongst the Christian Scientists population? I'm assuming they do not have their children vaccinated.

OK, not the type of thread for me to be posting in at this moment in time, but I agree with your post here very much here.
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
But I'm not that brave
Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
icy
We Are The Champions
 
User avatar

 

And the wounded skies above say it's much too late

      
 
Posts: 16442
Images: 0
Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 4:44 am
Location: The one where you be the first to forget and the last to remember...
Gender: Female
Has thanked: 260 times
Been thanked: 562 times

Re: Autism

Postby Elessar » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:15 am

Tarkus wrote:
AutumnGirlLybbie wrote: I don't have the answer but that clearly isn't it and some other approach needs to be tried.


Maybe taking some of these anti-vaxxers to attend the funerals of children dying from measles? Andrew Wakefield's report has been disproved and discredited so many times, and even magicians Penn and Teller have explained it in terms that ordinary people can understand- the only thing that's stopping these people from vaxxing now is their own stubbornness, and now measles cases are on the up and children are dying. Some children RELY on vaccinated kids, as the philosophy of 'herd immunisation' protects them- for whatever reasons, a few can't have vaccinations, such as leukaemia or other conditions, and if most other kids are vaccinated, they are less likely to contract measles because none of the other kids will have it. Now we have vast swathes of kids unvaccinated, so measles will spread amongst them, so at-risk kids won't now be protected.


What did we ever disagree on? :P
 
Elessar
I Want To Break Free
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 11022
Images: 0
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:35 pm
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 47 times
Been thanked: 172 times

Re: Autism

Postby julymorning » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:46 am

I meant to say "does anyone KNOW" not "does anyone one".
Sorry.
.It is my uppermost hope that even histories' genius's lost their minds as they aged. I'd hate to think that I really am an idiot. sjm
 
julymorning
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 

This is probably as good as it gets.

      
 
Posts: 1676
Images: 18
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 11:17 pm
Location: Missouri, U.S.A.
Gender: Female
Has thanked: 427 times
Been thanked: 229 times

Re: Autism

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:22 pm

julymorning wrote:I meant to say "does anyone KNOW" not "does anyone one".
Sorry.


Oh don't worry, they like you, they didn't even notice I'm sure.
 
AutumnGirlLybbie
 
User avatar

 
 

Re: Autism

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:28 pm

julymorning wrote:Elessar has the advantage in being able to see the whole picture, whereas a set of parents or a parent does not. They generally can't see, or don't care to see, beyond their own family. Do you honestly believe he would prefer to be right at the expense of health and lives?



Well, it is very unpopular to oppose a view of Elessars. I had no idea he was such an expert just because he's not a parent. My goodness. :shock:
 
AutumnGirlLybbie
 
User avatar

 
 

PreviousNext

Return to Views Of The World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests