Autism

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Re: Autism

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:44 pm

Sorry, you'll just have to have the rest of this debate without me.
 
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Re: Autism

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon Apr 30, 2012 10:59 pm

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:Girls, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
I don't have an absolute opinion on this topic and I'm not going to second guess a mother in this situation on her child on this either.


AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
Even though your neither a woman or a mother.


Slightly beside the point, but surely fathers could have the same intuition if he were the main care giver? I do think that having a mother/parent and being familiar with their intuition towards us, gives some validity to people who aren't parents views? I'm certain that having a child changes your world view drastically, it would need to, but I can't think that not having means you can't know when a parent has got something wrong.

It has been proven, that MMR vaccine doesn't cause autism. Jenny McCarthy based this idea on a paper which was later retracted by the author and discredited. It's a fact, and one to be happy about, that there's no link between autism and the MMR jab. We can agree to disagree about how much a parent knows compared to an impartial doctor, that's absolutely fair enough. Jenny McCarthy is wrong, about that though, categorically. Her being a mother of an autistic child may give her a reason to think irrationally on the subject, in desperation, but she is doing. It's not second guessing her as a parent, to say she's got this particular aspect of her views on autism, not on her son, wrong.
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Re: Autism

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Tue May 01, 2012 1:18 am

Belle Leisha wrote:
AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:Girls, we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this.
I don't have an absolute opinion on this topic and I'm not going to second guess a mother in this situation on her child on this either.


AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
Even though your neither a woman or a mother.


Slightly beside the point, but surely fathers could have the same intuition if he were the main care giver? I do think that having a mother/parent and being familiar with their intuition towards us, gives some validity to people who aren't parents views? I'm certain that having a child changes your world view drastically, it would need to, but I can't think that not having means you can't know when a parent has got something wrong.

It has been proven, that MMR vaccine doesn't cause autism. Jenny McCarthy based this idea on a paper which was later retracted by the author and discredited. It's a fact, and one to be happy about, that there's no link between autism and the MMR jab. We can agree to disagree about how much a parent knows compared to an impartial doctor, that's absolutely fair enough. Jenny McCarthy is wrong, about that though, categorically. Her being a mother of an autistic child may give her a reason to think irrationally on the subject, in desperation, but she is doing. It's not second guessing her as a parent, to say she's got this particular aspect of her views on autism, not on her son, wrong.



Belle, this is exactly where you and I disagree. I'm simply not going to judge these parents for the choices they've made on this. As I said, I don't think its a choice I would have made, but I'm not in that situation so I don't know. Its the same as putting judgement on a woman who's had an abortion. I've never faced that decision, I can theorize that I would make a different choice but never having been in the situations a woman can be in, I can't say for sure. I don't have a child that is autistic, I can't say if parents are right or wrong. But I also can't say one way or another if there is a link. Yes I've seen documentaries, I've read articles on both sides. We are passed the point where we are going to go round and round in circles on this. While I'm not one to be absolute about things, on this I can be absolute. This is absolutely the last thing I have to say on this. I'll leave the rest of you to it.
 
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Re: Autism

Postby Elessar » Tue May 01, 2012 5:57 am

So you won't judge any parent that makes a decision that others might think is bad, because you haven't been in that situation?

Hmmm.

Rose West will be thrilled.
 
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Re: Autism

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Tue May 01, 2012 11:32 am

I said, these parents and you know that. Now unless you have something more ridiculous to try and accuse me off saying, I'm done.
 
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Re: Autism

Postby Elessar » Tue May 01, 2012 11:49 am

So we've established that you don't think simply being a parent exempts you from criticism. You've made the judgement that any MMR decision is not worthy of criticism because the issue is uncertain. I'm telling you, based on facts, that it is not uncertain and anyone not giving their kid the MMR vaccine because of autism fears is quite simply wrong.
 
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Re: Autism

Postby LittleBabyNothing » Tue May 01, 2012 1:21 pm

Oh gosh. A classic QOL! I'm glad I'm staying away :-)
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Re: Autism

Postby Belle Leisha » Tue May 01, 2012 1:21 pm

It's up to you if you think it's a circular argument Lybbie, I disagree but that's okay. I'm not judging Jenny McCarthy for her parenting decisions, though, in the slightest. I have no idea whether her child had the MMR vaccine or not, that's her decision and she alone will be responsible for the consequences. I'm not so much judging her regarding her books, as I am saying the information contained within them is categorically false. There is no link.

Here's the quote from the General Medical Council, on Wakefield (the doctor Jenny McCarthy collaborated with): "The doctor who sparked the MMR controversy was “dishonest, irresponsible and showed callous disregard for the distress and pain” of children, the General Medical Council (GMC) has ruled."

Measles Mumps and Rubella had been basically wiped out and now cases of Measles have reoccurred, because of the LIE, started by Wakefield and given media fuel by celebrities who chose to take it seriously and promote it. Parents who didn't have their children immunised because of the scare, aren't to blame, that would be ridiculous. Celebrities and Wakefield who in the face of overwhelming contrary evidence, no supporting evidence whatsoever (and knowledge on Wakefield's part that he was lying) sparked media hysteria whipping, acted wrongly and dangerously and children may have died because of it.
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Re: Autism

Postby icy » Tue May 01, 2012 1:25 pm

LittleBabyNothing wrote:Oh gosh. A classic QOL! I'm glad I'm staying away :-)

Classic QOL without my getting involved...what is the place coming too :-P ?
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Re: Autism

Postby LittleBabyNothing » Tue May 01, 2012 1:32 pm

icy wrote:
LittleBabyNothing wrote:Oh gosh. A classic QOL! I'm glad I'm staying away :-)

Classic QOL without my getting involved...what is the place coming too :-P ?


And it's missing Inny, too!!! Whoot?!
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Re: Autism

Postby icy » Tue May 01, 2012 2:46 pm

LittleBabyNothing wrote:
icy wrote:
LittleBabyNothing wrote:Oh gosh. A classic QOL! I'm glad I'm staying away :-)

Classic QOL without my getting involved...what is the place coming too :-P ?


And it's missing Inny, too!!! Whoot?!

To be honest if I wasn't so busy and if I was feeling up to it, I would be right in here debating or is it arguing :-P.
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
Or how I'll be saved
I'm no coward
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Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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Re: Autism

Postby Elessar » Tue May 01, 2012 2:48 pm

I'll apologise if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly confident Inny will be on McCarthy and Wakefield's side. If not MMR, she'll believe gluten or mercury or E-numbers cause autism.
 
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Re: Autism

Postby icy » Tue May 01, 2012 2:49 pm

Elessar wrote:I'll apologise if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly confident Inny will be on McCarthy and Wakefield's side.

She isn't even posting in this thread, so unless you read minds... :P.
~Godspeed little one~
~Don't talk about angels
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I'm no coward
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Rags are blowing
Rain's getting near
I'm done with running
And it's getting dark in here~

~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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And the wounded skies above say it's much too late

      
 
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Re: Autism

Postby Elessar » Tue May 01, 2012 3:50 pm

icy wrote:
Elessar wrote:I'll apologise if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly confident Inny will be on McCarthy and Wakefield's side.

She isn't even posting in this thread, so unless you read minds... :P.


It's just a hunch!
 
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Re: Autism

Postby LittleBabyNothing » Tue May 01, 2012 5:25 pm

Elessar wrote:I'll apologise if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly confident Inny will be on McCarthy and Wakefield's side. If not MMR, she'll believe gluten or mercury or E-numbers cause autism.


Hahahahaha. :lol:
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