Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

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Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:08 am

Personally, I would say definately not. Completely selfish.

And, no, I am not homophobic in any sense of the word - I have friends and family who are gay and lesbian.

Anyone disagree? :)

I have edited this post just to add that - after the discussions on here with some of you good people and a realisation of my own personal slant on this issue - I have reflected on the above statement and come to the conclusion that I was wrong. I did not want to edit my post by deleting my original statement though, as I think that would not be honest of me.
Last edited by musicalprostitute on Wed Jul 04, 2012 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby lord of all darkness » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:25 am

Argh, there's that word again.

Yes i do. Homosexuals i believe are the most caring loving parents you can have. Would rather them to drunk, wife bashing, kiddy fiddling men that are either natural or step fathers.

The only concern i have is how cruel kids can be in the playground. But, attitudes are changing.

I would also point out, that homosexuality does not equal paedophillia.
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby Belle Leisha » Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:47 am

musicalprostitute wrote:Personally, I would say definately not. Completely selfish.

And, no, I am not homophobic in any sense of the word - I have friends and family who are gay and lesbian.

Anyone disagree? :)


Is this a serious post?
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:46 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:Personally, I would say definately not. Completely selfish.

And, no, I am not homophobic in any sense of the word - I have friends and family who are gay and lesbian.

Anyone disagree? :)


Is this a serious post?


Totally 100% serious. I take it you disagree with my post?
 
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:51 pm

lord of all darkness wrote:Argh, there's that word again.

Yes i do. Homosexuals i believe are the most caring loving parents you can have. Would rather them to drunk, wife bashing, kiddy fiddling men that are either natural or step fathers.

The only concern i have is how cruel kids can be in the playground. But, attitudes are changing.

I would also point out, that homosexuality does not equal paedophillia.


Can I ask what proof do you have that homosexuals are the most caring, loving parents, because I challenge that. Gay or straight is irrelevant when it comes to being a decent, loving person.

Also, why are you saying that straight people are even more kiddy-fiddling or drunk compared to gay people? What a prejudiced statement to make.

But, I agree with you on one point - children being bullied in the playground because they have two dads or two mums. This is my reason for disagreeing with gay adoption.
 
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby Belle Leisha » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:07 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:Personally, I would say definately not. Completely selfish.

And, no, I am not homophobic in any sense of the word - I have friends and family who are gay and lesbian.

Anyone disagree? :)


Is this a serious post?


Totally 100% serious. I take it you disagree with my post?


Well I do, but that wasn't what I wasn't sure was serious.

Your reasoning is based on the likelihood of the kids being bullied for having gay parents? Well yeah, they probably will be, just like they would be if they had fat, ginger, non-white or poor parents. The alternative to this being that they don't get adopted by those people, making it possible they don't get adopted at all and grow up in care. Pretty sure they'd get bullied then too. They would also be given the least possible chance at a loving upbringing.

Gay people adopting is no more selfish than anyone else doing so. Wanting children is an intrinsically selfish thing. It's also surely a very natural and normal thing. There are kids that need adopting and there aren't enough white, wealthy, middle class, young, married, heterosexual couples, to adopt all of them. While adoption agencies will generally say that none of those things will effect your application, the fact they have to specifically say that suggests it is an issue.

There are legitimate statistical, but clinical and unrealistic, reasons to prefer a very conforming view of a what ideal parents would be, for adoption agencies. In reality loving parents, be they gay, straight or otherwise, are far more important than trying to offer a perfect uncomplicated, uncontroversial life for a child that we all know isn't possible.
Last edited by Belle Leisha on Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:07 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
But, I agree with you on one point - children being bullied in the playground because they have two dads or two mums. This is my reason for disagreeing with gay adoption.



That is the wrong reason to be against gay adoption. Your enabling bad behavior by society and denying a good loving home to a child.
If this is your only reason to be against gay adoption, rather than say it shouldn't be allowed at all, help fix things. Talk to your friends, neighbors, co-workers, the guy sitting next to you on the bus or waiting in line at the grocery store, about acceptance. Join organizations working towards acceptance. But if you sit here and accept how society behaves towards these children, that's wrong too. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution.
Look how 50, 30 years ago society treated bi-racial children. Today its not given a thought in most places! That isn't because it just magically changed, that's because people cared enough to talk about those children positively !
 
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby Belle Leisha » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:18 pm

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
But, I agree with you on one point - children being bullied in the playground because they have two dads or two mums. This is my reason for disagreeing with gay adoption.



That is the wrong reason to be against gay adoption. Your enabling bad behavior by society and denying a good loving home to a child.
If this is your only reason to be against gay adoption, rather than say it shouldn't be allowed at all, help fix things. Talk to your friends, neighbors, co-workers, the guy sitting next to you on the bus or waiting in line at the grocery store, about acceptance. Join organizations working towards acceptance. But if you sit here and accept how society behaves towards these children, that's wrong too. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution.
Look how 50, 30 years ago society treated bi-racial children. Today its not given a thought in most places! That isn't because it just magically changed, that's because people cared enough to talk about those children positively !


Yeah. It's a bit self defeating to think our response to bullying ought to be to conform. It will stop being an issue, when it becomes "normal". It will be normal when it's fully accepted.
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:32 pm

Well I do, but that wasn't what I wasn't sure was serious.

Your reasoning is based on the likelihood of the kids being bullied for having gay parents? Well yeah, they probably will be, just like they would be if they had fat, ginger, non-white or poor parents. The alternative to this being that they don't get adopted by those people, making it possible they don't get adopted at all and grow up in care. Pretty sure they'd get bullied then too. They would also be given the least possible chance at a loving upbringing.

Gay people adopting is no more selfish than anyone else doing so. Wanting children is an intrinsically selfish thing. It's also surely a very natural and normal thing. There are kids that need adopting and there aren't enough white, wealthy, middle class, young, married, heterosexual couples, to adopt all of them. While adoption agencies will generally say that none of those things will effect your application, the fact they have to specifically say that suggests it is an issue.

There are legitimate statistical, but clinical and unrealistic, reasons to prefer a very conforming view of a what ideal parents would be, for adoption agencies. In reality loving parents, be they gay, straight or otherwise, are far more important than trying to offer a perfect uncomplicated, uncontroversial life for a child that we all know isn't possible.[/quote]

Personally, I do not think a child with 'ginger or fat parents' will be bullied on the same scale as if they had two dads or two mums.

I think it is more selfish of gay people to adopt than it is straight people. Gay people are more aware than anyone else how cruel society can be - and yet they are willing to (maybe) put a child through that, because they want to play daddies or mummies. In other words, of course any child can be bullied because of any number of reasons, but why adopt a child knowing full well that, unfortunately in society, he/she will be more likely to be bullied because of his/her parent's sexuality?

It goes without saying that most of us want a more tolerant, open-minded, non-judgemental society, but, alas, we haven't reached that point yet - and maybe we never will.
 
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:37 pm

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
But, I agree with you on one point - children being bullied in the playground because they have two dads or two mums. This is my reason for disagreeing with gay adoption.



That is the wrong reason to be against gay adoption. Your enabling bad behavior by society and denying a good loving home to a child.
If this is your only reason to be against gay adoption, rather than say it shouldn't be allowed at all, help fix things. Talk to your friends, neighbors, co-workers, the guy sitting next to you on the bus or waiting in line at the grocery store, about acceptance. Join organizations working towards acceptance. But if you sit here and accept how society behaves towards these children, that's wrong too. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution.
Look how 50, 30 years ago society treated bi-racial children. Today its not given a thought in most places! That isn't because it just magically changed, that's because people cared enough to talk about those children positively !


Firstly, I am not 'part of the problem'. I do not condone homophobic views on any level, and I wish for a more tolerant society. But if I was to start randomly approaching people 'at the bus stop' or supermarket, etc. and talk to them about 'acceptance', I would probably in all honesty be told to 'fuck off!'. You seem to paint a rosy little world we all live in, but that is not the reality at all.

I do my bit when it comes to standing against homophobia - and have done for years, but I don't agree with gay adoption. And, I may add, many of my gay friends are against it too.
 
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:42 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
But, I agree with you on one point - children being bullied in the playground because they have two dads or two mums. This is my reason for disagreeing with gay adoption.



That is the wrong reason to be against gay adoption. Your enabling bad behavior by society and denying a good loving home to a child.
If this is your only reason to be against gay adoption, rather than say it shouldn't be allowed at all, help fix things. Talk to your friends, neighbors, co-workers, the guy sitting next to you on the bus or waiting in line at the grocery store, about acceptance. Join organizations working towards acceptance. But if you sit here and accept how society behaves towards these children, that's wrong too. Don't be part of the problem, be part of the solution.
Look how 50, 30 years ago society treated bi-racial children. Today its not given a thought in most places! That isn't because it just magically changed, that's because people cared enough to talk about those children positively !


Yeah. It's a bit self defeating to think our response to bullying ought to be to conform. It will stop being an issue, when it becomes "normal". It will be normal when it's fully accepted.


Not self-defeating at all. I don't think people should conform as a response to bullying. And, one day, if it becomes the norm, then I will not be against gay adoption. Until then, I say stop being selfish and think about the children.
 
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:10 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
Not self-defeating at all. I don't think people should conform as a response to bullying. And, one day, if it becomes the norm, then I will not be against gay adoption. Until then, I say stop being selfish and think about the children.


How do you think it will ever become the norm? Do you think things like that just happen? No, people make that happen.
If you stand up against homophobia, then stand up for all of it, even the hard parts. Yes talk to people in the grocery store line and on the bus! Of course people will tell you to fuck off, but if you feel strongly about something, you just keep working. There might always be that one that doesn't. Or the one who told you to fuck off, that thinks about things later...... Push for anti-bullying policies in the schools! Lots of things you can do. The easy way out is to just say gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because society doesn't like it.
 
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby icy » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:12 pm

Yes they should be allowed to adopt!
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby Belle Leisha » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:14 pm

Your argument is still specifically picking out gay people as likely reasons to be bullied. Being adopted in the first place, is something kids are likely to be bullied for. Your gay friends being against adoption doesn't make the stance any less wrong. If YOU, don't want to adopt or you think there ought to be more specific requirements from parents, then fine, but it's entirely wrong to suggest gay people who do adopt are being selfish. Are you not being rather selfish to decide someone else can't adopt because it doesn't fit into your ideas of what's right for children?

One day, if it becomes the norm? How is that going to happen if people continue to be against gay people adopting? That's almost the definition of self-defeating.

I agree, think of the children. Think about the life in care they'll lead if we used your ideas to limit the numbers of potential adoptions. Nothing, is a worse option than that. Most people were bullied in school. It's not being selfish, at all, to think the life a gay couple could give a child, even with the potential for them to be bullied, is a far, far better option than a life in care.
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Re: Should Gay People Be Allowed To Adopt?

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Jul 03, 2012 2:26 pm

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
Not self-defeating at all. I don't think people should conform as a response to bullying. And, one day, if it becomes the norm, then I will not be against gay adoption. Until then, I say stop being selfish and think about the children.


How do you think it will ever become the norm? Do you think things like that just happen? No, people make that happen.
If you stand up against homophobia, then stand up for all of it, even the hard parts. Yes talk to people in the grocery store line and on the bus! Of course people will tell you to fuck off, but if you feel strongly about something, you just keep working. There might always be that one that doesn't. Or the one who told you to fuck off, that thinks about things later...... Push for anti-bullying policies in the schools! Lots of things you can do. The easy way out is to just say gay marriage shouldn't be allowed because society doesn't like it.


Listen, I have more than stood up for homosexuals in my lifetime, and I find your tone somewhat patronising to say the least.

I am not saying anything about gay marriage, but gay adoption!
 
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