Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

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Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby lizg » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:48 pm

R-F-M wrote:
lord of all darkness wrote:
Pastieman.Steve wrote:I couldn't give a flying fuck on someone's sexuality, we are all human beings at the end of the day, being not the "norm" whatever that is doesn't make one person any better than the next.
Anyway I can't spell homosexual ;)



I agree, fuck, that's twice now. Anyhow, i wanted to clarify, i do find the word gay as been a little patronising to homosexuals. That said, if it doesn't bother them, who am i to complain?


Are you in some sort of sensory deprivation bubble?

Have you not heard of Gay Pride and the hundreds of "Gay" organisations. They are run by gay people you know, calling ourselves gay. Not condescending straight people patting us on the head calling us "gay".



This is just my opinion as someone here who is offended by the use of the word, "gay" (as in "too gay" or "overly gay")as a perjorative.
It's not a question of whether using the word, "gay" is okay, simply saying someone is gay or homosexual is a fact and not being used as a perjorative. it's whether it's used as a perjorative or not.

If fairydandy is gay and wants to say he finds Adam Lambert too effiminate for his taste, I have no problem with that. We can all have a discussion on that. But saying he's "too gay" and to get rid of the "gay jacket next time" was offensive. You're attacking (inadvertently or not) a group of people just to criticize one person. Or if someone calls someone "overly gay", that's offensive. Am I "overly straight?" It's a bunch of ignorant sterotypes, used as perjoratives.

"Too gay"? There is not one way to be gay and that is offensive. Some characteristics that are stereotypically male are" egotistical" and "insensitive". If I said you are too male, that's offensive. It's an attack on a group of people. Are all gay men sensitive and humble? Of course not!

Of course, it is not true that all men are egotistical and and insensitive. Roger, Brian, and Adam are three men who I would say are not. They are three of the kindest men I've seen.

*Edit just to say I didn't open this thread. JLP opened it when splitting threads, so here we have it.
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Last edited by lizg on Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:04 am, edited 19 times in total.
 
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Re: Locking threads

Postby The Milkman » Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:59 pm

I still think some people are making a big deal about NOTHING! I was at a party last night and a straight friend of mine was going on and on about how nice a beer label looked. I just looked at him and said you are gayer than I am. Everybody at the party (gay & straight) had a good laugh. Lighten up and please don't think you are doing me any favours when you analyze every single "gay" comment on this site.
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Re: Locking threads

Postby Pastieman.Steve » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:21 pm

lizg wrote:

This is just my opinion as someone here who is offended by the use of the word, "gay" as a perjorative.
It's not a question of whether using the word, "gay" is okay, it's whether it's used as a perjorative or not.

If fairydandy is gay and wants to say he finds Adam Lambert too effiminate for his taste, I have no problem with that. We can all have a discussion on that. But saying he's "too gay" and to get rid of the "gay jacket next time was offensive. Or if someone calls someone "overly gay", that's offensive. Am I "overly straight?" It's a bunch of ignorant sterotypes, used as perjoratives.

"Too gay"? There is not one way to be gay and that is offensive. Some characteristics that are stereotypically male are" egotistical" and "insensitive". If I said you are too male, that's offensive. It's an attack on a group of people. Are all gay men sensitive and humble? Of course not!

Of course, it is not true that all men are egotistical and and insensitive. Roger, Brian, and Adam are 3 men who I would say are not. They are three of the kindest men I've seen.

I remember when gay used to mean happy. :lol:
OK this will get deleted but what the fuck I'm gonna say it any way.
So lizg what would you prefer gay people to be called, fags, poofs, shirt lifters, bum bandits, shit diggers etc etc? All those are far more offensive than calling someone gay, FFS get a grip, stop being so bloody sensitive and PC and live in the real world, there is a darn sight worse out there that gay people can and are called, most "gay" people will say they are gay themselves when telling others their sexuality, so if it is ok for them to use that word why is it not ok for others?
Now go and report this to admin or a mod.
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Re: Locking threads

Postby lizg » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:25 pm

Pastieman.Steve wrote:
lizg wrote:

This is just my opinion as someone here who is offended by the use of the word, "gay" as a perjorative.
It's not a question of whether using the word, "gay" is okay, it's whether it's used as a perjorative or not.

If fairydandy is gay and wants to say he finds Adam Lambert too effiminate for his taste, I have no problem with that. We can all have a discussion on that. But saying he's "too gay" and to get rid of the "gay jacket next time was offensive. Or if someone calls someone "overly gay", that's offensive. Am I "overly straight?" It's a bunch of ignorant sterotypes, used as perjoratives.

"Too gay"? There is not one way to be gay and that is offensive. Some characteristics that are stereotypically male are" egotistical" and "insensitive". If I said you are too male, that's offensive. It's an attack on a group of people. Are all gay men sensitive and humble? Of course not!

Of course, it is not true that all men are egotistical and and insensitive. Roger, Brian, and Adam are 3 men who I would say are not. They are three of the kindest men I've seen.

I remember when gay used to mean happy. :lol:
OK this will get deleted but what the fuck I'm gonna say it any way.
So lizg what would you prefer gay people to be called, fags, poofs, shirt lifters, bum bandits, shit diggers etc etc? All those are far more offensive than calling someone gay, FFS get a grip, stop being so bloody sensitive and PC and live in the real world, there is a darn sight worse out there that gay people can and are called, most "gay" people will say they are gay themselves when telling others their sexuality, so if it is ok for them to use that word why is it not ok for others?
Now go and report this to admin or a mod.


Steve, I don't mind that you call my gay friends, relatives, neighbors, etc. gay. It's about using it as a perjorative. Please reread my post. Thanks.
 
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Re: Locking threads

Postby Pastieman.Steve » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:39 pm

lizg wrote:
Pastieman.Steve wrote:
lizg wrote:

This is just my opinion as someone here who is offended by the use of the word, "gay" as a perjorative.
It's not a question of whether using the word, "gay" is okay, it's whether it's used as a perjorative or not.

If fairydandy is gay and wants to say he finds Adam Lambert too effiminate for his taste, I have no problem with that. We can all have a discussion on that. But saying he's "too gay" and to get rid of the "gay jacket next time was offensive. Or if someone calls someone "overly gay", that's offensive. Am I "overly straight?" It's a bunch of ignorant sterotypes, used as perjoratives.

"Too gay"? There is not one way to be gay and that is offensive. Some characteristics that are stereotypically male are" egotistical" and "insensitive". If I said you are too male, that's offensive. It's an attack on a group of people. Are all gay men sensitive and humble? Of course not!

Of course, it is not true that all men are egotistical and and insensitive. Roger, Brian, and Adam are 3 men who I would say are not. They are three of the kindest men I've seen.

I remember when gay used to mean happy. :lol:
OK this will get deleted but what the fuck I'm gonna say it any way.
So lizg what would you prefer gay people to be called, fags, poofs, shirt lifters, bum bandits, shit diggers etc etc? All those are far more offensive than calling someone gay, FFS get a grip, stop being so bloody sensitive and PC and live in the real world, there is a darn sight worse out there that gay people can and are called, most "gay" people will say they are gay themselves when telling others their sexuality, so if it is ok for them to use that word why is it not ok for others?
Now go and report this to admin or a mod.


Steve, I don't mind that you call my gay friends, relatives, neighbors, etc. gay. It's about using it as a perjorative. Please reread my post. Thanks.

But that IMO is being over sensitive, saying something like get rid of that gay jacket is not offensive, if someone said get rid of that womans jacket instead, isnt that being sexist?
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Re: Locking threads

Postby Kes » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:54 pm

Pastieman.Steve wrote:...so if it is ok for them to use that word why is it not ok for others?


Does the same argument transpose to rappers using the "N" word?

Another question. The gay community came up with the word "straight", and nobody considers it offensive. The word was actually derived as being the opposite to "bent", a typically 70s phrase referring to homosexuality, which I'd have thought is at least moderately offensive if you happen to be gay. How come a direct derivitive of an offensive phrase can be inoffensive, the connotation is always there, surely?
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Re: Homophobia and Other Evils

Postby JLP » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:56 pm

I don't find the word gay at all offensive. As Pastie said, there are far worse adjectives one could use to be derogative to homosexual, bisexual or lesbian individuals.
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Re: Locking threads

Postby Pastieman.Steve » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:58 pm

Kes wrote:
Pastieman.Steve wrote:...so if it is ok for them to use that word why is it not ok for others?


Does the same argument transpose to rappers using the "N" word?

Another question. The gay community came up with the word "straight", and nobody considers it offensive. The word was actually derived as being the opposite to "bent", a typically 70s phrase referring to homosexuality, which I'd have thought is at least moderately offensive if you happen to be gay. How come a direct derivitive of an offensive phrase can be inoffensive, the connotation is always there, surely?

I was going to use the N word in the same post as another example but thought that might be a step too far and open another can or worms.
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Re: Homophobia and Other Evils

Postby Pastieman.Steve » Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:59 pm

JLP wrote:I don't find the word gay at all offensive. As Pastie said, there are far worse adjectives one could use to be derogative to homosexual, bisexual or lesbian individuals.

You mean I am not going to be deleted for that post? :shock: ;)
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Re: Homophobia and Other Evils

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:59 am

Since when is the word gay offensive? What the religious, autism, and political debates aren't enough so we have to invent debates now?
 
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Re: Homophobia and Other Evils

Postby M&M » Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:01 am

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:Since when is the word gay offensive? What the religious, autism, and political debates aren't enough so we have to invent debates now?



It's a spill over from the Adam Lambert/Kiev thread (if you want to get up to speed and participate).
 
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Re: Homophobia and Other Evils

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:17 am

M&M wrote:
AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:Since when is the word gay offensive? What the religious, autism, and political debates aren't enough so we have to invent debates now?



It's a spill over from the Adam Lambert/Kiev thread (if you want to get up to speed and participate).


No thanks. I think I'll sit that one out! LOL!
 
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Re: Homophobia and Other Evils

Postby Innuendoes » Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:07 am

We need a like button on here. lol And, no, I don't mean the "thanks" button, thank you very much. :P

I agree with what AGL has just last posted. No thanks! :-P
 
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Re: Homophobia and Other Evils

Postby lord of all darkness » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:13 am

lord of all darkness wrote:

I agree, fuck, that's twice now. Anyhow, i wanted to clarify, i do find the word gay as been a little patronising to homosexuals. That said, if it doesn't bother them, who am i to complain?


Just to clarify, as i had a troll trying to goad me by selective quoting me. The word gay doesn't offend me when labelling a gay person. I find the word patronising to homosexuals, however other words i do find offensive as per pasties post. And like i said above. If it doesn't bother the targets of the word, why should it bother me. End of the day the are human beings, and bleed and hurt the same as anyone. They have the same rights as you and me, which is how it should be.

Btw, i think Homophobics should be allowed to adopt, as long as they promise to love the child no matter whichever that the child chooses later in life.
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Re: Homophobia and Other Evils

Postby Simon » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:33 am

I think I understand lizg's argument. It's not that the term "gay" is derogatory, but that the term is used in a derogatory way. I guess no one hardly agrees that the term "homosexual" is a better term. It sounds far too biological to describe personal preferences, even though homosexuality or heterosexuality might have its roots in genetical or biological reasons (and I won't delve into that discussion). Yes, the term "gay" was initially used as a derogatory term because of the stereotypical antics of homosexual people with flamboyant and camp antics.
However, it was quite a clever development that the "gay community" (whatever that is) adopted the term themselves and thus defused the term.
I don't know too many gay men (and let's leave out female homosexuality here for a while since the reason for this debate focusses on gay men), but they also use the term "gay" not only to describe a homosexual person, but to refer to the stereotypical campness and flamboyance in appearance. So, linguistically speaking they use "gay" as a homograph, a word that is written exactly the same but semantically means something else, even though the meaning is somehow related. The majority of gay men I know are annoyed by overly "gay" behaviour. And let's not fool us, every stereotype has a reason for its existence. There are gay guys who talk in a strange, high-pitched voiced, extravagantly use their arms while talking, go shopping 24/7,waggle their hands as if their wrists were broken and strut along the promenade to show off their latest tight pair of jeans etc. (Just to make it clear: There are enough stereotypical male men's men, who talk in a loud booming voice, make racy, sexist jokes, and pretend to use women only for sex and are not in the least in danger of broken hearts because they have everything under control etc.)
When someone, gay, bi, straight, states that someone in stage is too gay for him/her, then I read "gay" as the antics of a stereotypical gay man, not his sexuality per se. And I find nothing pejorative in that, especially, in the case of Adam Lambert, it might not be too far from the truth. I wouldn't agree with it, at least from what I saw I wasn't overly annoyed by it. Freddie switched from camp to butch from one song to another, and hell, even Paul Rodgers had some pretty camp and "gay" moments on stage.
I did find it annoying however these last couple of months that Adam Lambert didn't stop mentioning that he was gay and that therefore he had a lot in common with Freddie and therefore is well-suited for the job. I remember one interview where Roger and Brian is seen as well while Lambert was saying that and you can clearly see how uncomfortable it is for Roger. Freddie's sexuality has never really been an issue (apart from the fact that the record company did not want him to be openly gay at the beginning). He never wanted to be a role model for gay people, never wrote a song to fight for gay rights etc. He loved dick more than pussy. Big deal.
In conclusion: fairydandy, in his inimitable style, obviously provoked some comments. He did not use the term "gay" without thinking about it. He tried to pick a fight maybe. And no matter how nice it is of lizg to defend Adam Lambert and make everybody aware of the derogatory use of the term "gay", I don't think it is necessary. It is a neutral word as uch as it can be. In fairydandy's eyes he is bahaving too stereotypically gay on stage, and that is a fair opinion.
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