Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby lizg » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:16 pm

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
fairydandy wrote:
lizg wrote:The words "too gay" is gaybashing, whether that is one's intent or not.


Nonsense.


I would only agree depending on who said it and in what context. As I've said before I don't think a gay person can say that and be gay bashing. When someone is a member of a group, it's different because they don't mean harm towards the whole group. In that case I think it is said in only the spirit of being critical, but not damaging. However if a straight person says something or someone is "too gay" then that is open for debate on whether or not that is gay bashing. Lizg is taking a zero tolerance type approach to what is socially acceptable and what isn't. I don't think that hardly ever works though. That's how I see it anyhow.


A gay person can actually say that and be self-loathing.
It does hurt the group, so if you intend not to hurt the group, why not choose other words? The way we use words has a social impact.
We don't actually know if anybody here or in any forum on the internet is actually gay (not even if they are in a gay forum), unless we know them off the net. All we know is what they tell us. We don't know why people tell us what they do. I'm sure there are a lot of straight people acting gay and speaking for gay people on the internet these days as if it means anything. But we don't have to be gay to understand this or speak up for them. This is a human rights issue.
 
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:21 pm

Judging by last night, I don't care if he breaks every possible scale of gayness if it is somehow now a variable, boy can sing. :P
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby icy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:29 pm

lizg wrote:
A gay person can actually say that and be self-loathing.
It does hurt the group, so if you intend not to hurt the group, why not choose other words? The way we use words has a social impact.
We don't actually know if anybody here or in any forum on the internet is actually gay (not even if they are in a gay forum), unless we know them off the net. All we know is what they tell us. We don't know why people tell us what they do. I'm sure there are a lot of straight people acting gay and speaking for gay people on the internet these days as if it means anything. But we don't have to be gay to understand this or speak up for them. This is a human rights issue.

Lizg, I've been here a few years one could say. I'd like to think I've a pretty good idea about posters, and they sure do about me. One reason I said to you and others often in getting the time in getting to know people before judging them, is because even with your post above IMO it's that you are judging. The ones you shoot down here, fd, JLP, Pastie, have done the most to offer me advice from time to time, possibly many others about many subjects. I know those guys are great people, too bad you can't see it.
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby icy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 8:45 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:Judging by last night, I don't care if he breaks every possible scale of gayness if it is somehow now a variable, boy can sing. :P

Sounds like you had a good time, pleased for you.
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:17 pm

lizg wrote:
AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:I would only agree depending on who said it and in what context. As I've said before I don't think a gay person can say that and be gay bashing. When someone is a member of a group, it's different because they don't mean harm towards the whole group. In that case I think it is said in only the spirit of being critical, but not damaging. However if a straight person says something or someone is "too gay" then that is open for debate on whether or not that is gay bashing. Lizg is taking a zero tolerance type approach to what is socially acceptable and what isn't. I don't think that hardly ever works though. That's how I see it anyhow.


A gay person can actually say that and be self-loathing.
It does hurt the group, so if you intend not to hurt the group, why not choose other words? The way we use words has a social impact.
We don't actually know if anybody here or in any forum on the internet is actually gay (not even if they are in a gay forum), unless we know them off the net. All we know is what they tell us. We don't know why people tell us what they do. I'm sure there are a lot of straight people acting gay and speaking for gay people on the internet these days as if it means anything. But we don't have to be gay to understand this or speak up for them. This is a human rights issue.



You are way over thinking this.
 
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby Montavilla » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:08 pm

icy wrote:Hell, there are a few times looking at things in Elton John's career that IMO were too gay, the time he dressed as Donald Duck being one. It was fun to watch, and fun to do IIRC.


That wouldn't him being too gay. That would be Elton John being too duck.

icy wrote:Elton by the way has done much, much more than Adam could even think about.

I'll bet neither of them is keeping score on that.
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby Montavilla » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:11 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:Judging by last night, I don't care if he breaks every possible scale of gayness if it is somehow now a variable, boy can sing. :P


Speaking selfishly, can you share with us your experience at the show? (Obviously, this isn't the thread for it, but in the Hammersmith shows thread?)

Pretty please! I'd love to know what it was like for you.
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby icy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:41 pm

Montavilla wrote:
icy wrote:Hell, there are a few times looking at things in Elton John's career that IMO were too gay, the time he dressed as Donald Duck being one. It was fun to watch, and fun to do IIRC.


That wouldn't him being too gay. That would be Elton John being too duck.

icy wrote:Elton by the way has done much, much more than Adam could even think about.

I'll bet neither of them is keeping score on that.

It's well known he dressed...to kill or thrill I don't know, but he had a blast doing it.
No, but Elton has raised millions through the years, I doubt Adam or many could top it.
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby Belle Leisha » Fri Jul 13, 2012 12:09 am

Montavilla wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:Judging by last night, I don't care if he breaks every possible scale of gayness if it is somehow now a variable, boy can sing. :P


Speaking selfishly, can you share with us your experience at the show? (Obviously, this isn't the thread for it, but in the Hammersmith shows thread?)

Pretty please! I'd love to know what it was like for you.


When I get a second I will in the Briannica thread. :P
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby Montavilla » Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:17 pm

Yeah, I know. Everyone's sick of this topic.

But I just came across an interview Adam gave with Q radio where they discussed several subjects, including Adam's role as an openly gay recording artist -- and he briefly alludes to "not being the right kind of gay."



Adam starts talking about being "too gay" at 11:36 in the video.
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby Loretta » Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:26 am

Speaking as a bummer, I find it more annoying when people who have nothing to do with it take offense on my behalf. It's patronising, demeaning, and insulting.

On the plus side, this has been so prevalent for most of my life, the the term "do-gooder" is now a pejorative term, so I guess what goes around comes around.
 
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Jul 19, 2012 10:19 am

True, but in the case of bigotry I'm never offended on behalf of minorities, I'm offended personally that I have to share oxygen with bigots. :P
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby musicalprostitute » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:42 am

Loretta wrote:Speaking as a bummer, I find it more annoying when people who have nothing to do with it take offense on my behalf. It's patronising, demeaning, and insulting.

On the plus side, this has been so prevalent for most of my life, the the term "do-gooder" is now a pejorative term, so I guess what goes around comes around.


Beautiful introduction, sir! :lol:

Agree with you 100% on this. It always appears to be straight, middle-class liberals who take it apon themselves to be offended on the behalf of gay people. Quite ridiculous.

Most gay people I know are made of much harder stuff, and also have such a shared wicked sense of humour about these things. And I can't count the amount of times I have heard one gay man call another gay man a 'faggot' or 'old queen', etc. Of course though, it's all in the way people say things at the end of the day.

Can honestly say, the best nights out in my life have been with my gay friends - never a dull night, and always loaded with witty conversation, wicked jokes, and some of the best put-downs and ripostes I have ever heard. :)
 
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby WeeMann » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:13 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:Can honestly say, the best nights out in my life have been with my gay friends - never a dull night, and always loaded with witty conversation, wicked jokes, and some of the best put-downs and ripostes I have ever heard. :)


A night out with Loretta's not like that. He scares me because he's too gay.
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Re: Using the Phrase "Too Gay" Harms the Gay Community

Postby lizg » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:06 pm

Loretta wrote:Speaking as a bummer, I find it more annoying when people who have nothing to do with it take offense on my behalf. It's patronising, demeaning, and insulting.

On the plus side, this has been so prevalent for most of my life, the the term "do-gooder" is now a pejorative term, so I guess what goes around comes around.

It's not called "do-gooding" when it comes to bigotry. The insensitvity born of bigotry affects not just the gay community but really everyone whose different from them. It's basically a bully mentality.

First they came for the communists, and I did notspeak out—because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
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