Roger and blood sports.

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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby musicalprostitute » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:11 pm

Elessar wrote:The feeding cats to snakes thing is interesting. The 'normal' food for pet lizards and snakes and stuff is crickets and locusts and mice, so is that okay, or is that cruel as well? It's odd that feeding snakes live cats is more shocking than feeding them mice. Or is it because people film it and enjoy it? People film lions eating antelopes and find it entertaining, so how is that different?

(inb4 a lecture about the intricate feeding rituals of snakes and lizards and owls)


To me personally, it's more about the evil bastard actually feeding the snake gaining pleasure from doing so. Of course, feeding crickets and locusts ain't very nice for the crickets and locusts themselves, but you can go on forever like that. For me it's the fact that someone (ie the little cock in the youtube videos) gets sadistic pleasure from seeing animals suffer.
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby Elessar » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:12 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
Elessar wrote:The feeding cats to snakes thing is interesting. The 'normal' food for pet lizards and snakes and stuff is crickets and locusts and mice, so is that okay, or is that cruel as well? It's odd that feeding snakes live cats is more shocking than feeding them mice. Or is it because people film it and enjoy it? People film lions eating antelopes and find it entertaining, so how is that different?

(inb4 a lecture about the intricate feeding rituals of snakes and lizards and owls)


To me personally, it's more about the evil bastard actually feeding the snake gaining pleasure from doing so. Of course, feeding crickets and locusts ain't very nice for the crickets and locusts themselves, but you can go on forever like that. For me it's the fact that someone (ie the little cock in the youtube videos) gets sadistic pleasure from seeing animals suffer.


Yeah, I understand. That's my objection to fox-hunting. If foxes need to be killed (and there's no evidence that says they do), then do it quickly and quietly without any fanfare. It's the mentality of the hunters that I don't like. I don't particularly care about the fox being in pain or dying - if I did, I'd have to be a vegetarian otherwise I'd be a hypocrite.
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby musicalprostitute » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:28 pm

Agree with you. But where I differ with you is that I do care - alot - about the fox being in pain and dying. I know I eat meat, and those animals have obviously been killed for that purpose, but I still don't feel hypocritical about it. To me eating animals does not bother me, as long as they haven't suffered unnecessarily in the process. But tearing a fox to pieces just in the name of 'sport' - no, I don't accept that. So I can eat animals and feel angered and sickened by a fox dying in pain in the same breath, but I don't feel hypocritical.
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby Elessar » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:31 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:Agree with you. But where I differ with you is that I do care - alot - about the fox being in pain and dying. I know I eat meat, and those animals have obviously been killed for that purpose, but I still don't feel hypocritical about it. To me eating animals does not bother me, as long as they haven't suffered unnecessarily in the process. But tearing a fox to pieces just in the name of 'sport' - no, I don't accept that. So I can eat animals and feel angered and sickened by a fox dying in pain in the same breath, but I don't feel hypocritical.


Yeah, but the suffering the foxes experience is no worse than what animals experience every day in the wild. It's the fact the humans are watching it and enjoying it that bothers me. Even if they did it with a robot, but the hunters didn't know, I wouldn't like it. I feel slightly uneasy about extremely sadistic computer games for the same reason. I don't think it's healthy.
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby musicalprostitute » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:38 pm

Elessar wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:Agree with you. But where I differ with you is that I do care - alot - about the fox being in pain and dying. I know I eat meat, and those animals have obviously been killed for that purpose, but I still don't feel hypocritical about it. To me eating animals does not bother me, as long as they haven't suffered unnecessarily in the process. But tearing a fox to pieces just in the name of 'sport' - no, I don't accept that. So I can eat animals and feel angered and sickened by a fox dying in pain in the same breath, but I don't feel hypocritical.


Yeah, but the suffering the foxes experience is no worse than what animals experience every day in the wild. It's the fact the humans are watching it and enjoying it that bothers me. Even if they did it with a robot, but the hunters didn't know, I wouldn't like it. I feel slightly uneasy about extremely sadistic computer games for the same reason. I don't think it's healthy.


Yes, I see what you are saying, and agree - partly. But I can accept animals dying in pain in the wild (I feel for the poor little mites but understand that that is nature). But fox hunting isn't nature - and the fox doesn't really stand a chance, as in the wild he would.

Regards your point about computer games - I wholeheartedly agree. I honestly believe that some of these violent games really have a negative and nasty effect on young and impressionable minds.
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby Belle Leisha » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:42 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:Agree with you. But where I differ with you is that I do care - alot - about the fox being in pain and dying. I know I eat meat, and those animals have obviously been killed for that purpose, but I still don't feel hypocritical about it. To me eating animals does not bother me, as long as they haven't suffered unnecessarily in the process. But tearing a fox to pieces just in the name of 'sport' - no, I don't accept that. So I can eat animals and feel angered and sickened by a fox dying in pain in the same breath, but I don't feel hypocritical.


To be fair, most animals you eat, if you get meat from supermarkets etc, have suffered unnecessarily. It's because of how terribly cattle are treated that they get diseases like bTB, which in turn leads to the badger mess. Then there's battery hens, etc. Some animal rights conscious people are careful to only eat free range eggs, but if you eat chicken, there's no knowing what condition they were kept in. Abattoirs are vile, the animals generally do suffer horribly.
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby musicalprostitute » Fri Nov 02, 2012 7:52 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:Agree with you. But where I differ with you is that I do care - alot - about the fox being in pain and dying. I know I eat meat, and those animals have obviously been killed for that purpose, but I still don't feel hypocritical about it. To me eating animals does not bother me, as long as they haven't suffered unnecessarily in the process. But tearing a fox to pieces just in the name of 'sport' - no, I don't accept that. So I can eat animals and feel angered and sickened by a fox dying in pain in the same breath, but I don't feel hypocritical.


To be fair, most animals you eat, if you get meat from supermarkets etc, have suffered unnecessarily. It's because of how terribly cattle are treated that they get diseases like bTB, which in turn leads to the badger mess. Then there's battery hens, etc. Some animal rights conscious people are careful to only eat free range eggs, but if you eat chicken, there's no knowing what condition they were kept in. Abattoirs are vile, the animals generally do suffer horribly.


I will only eat RSPCA freedom foods, free range eggs, etc. I know ideally I should be a veggie (which I did for a year) but I require meat in my diet. I understand that it's not a perfect world, and I am far from perfect, but I still stand by my beliefs when it comes to animal welfare as best I can.
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby Belle Leisha » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:12 pm

Having read back a bit through this thread, I'm torn between being delighted for once it's not Brian being mercilessly slated, and thinking it's a little bit harsh to Roger.

Their Queen projects, for example, I don't believe have been purely for profit, unless they're both very stupid. The Cosmos Rocks, the SINT single for 46664, their ongoing reluctance to release old actual Queen material, suggests more pickiness than profiteering. QPL is a business of course, profit is what they're for.

Roger's hypocrisy doesn't seem to me any worse than any rich person who likes Imagine. Because while "imagine no religion" is a nice bandwagon to jump on these days, it's followed very quickly by "imagine no possessions"...which neither John Lennon, Roger Taylor, or even Brian May who has also quoted that song in an anti-religion sense before, seem to have imagined very hard.

Brian and Roger have both been very polite to me. Brian was once slightly grumpy, very friendly to me but grumpy on the whole, probably because it was the night he fell a-over-t over Roger's drum kit. :P Roger was once in a very obvious hurry. Brian had been extraordinarily nice and willing to give time to waiting fans while I've been there and I have only seen Roger hang around for a few minutes, but neither seem rude to me, both seem human. I'm sure there are people who have met me and think I was rude, if I wasn't in a delightfully happy mood at that exact moment.

Blood sports are a revolting thing to support, but it has so much to do with background. It doesn't necessarily mean enjoying causing pain either, it could just be about sport. I think it's horrendous, but then I wasn't brought up where there's likely to be a grouse shooting community. I have to say I think the fact Brian says he's supported the Tories for most of his life is just as questionable. What on earth did he think their view on animal rights was? :P

Don't get me wrong, I do agree with R-F-M's sentiment; have principles or don't, and I also find Roger's 'principles' to be a bit clichéd, before we get to blood sports (which is indefensible). But it must be hard to be completely consistent in the public eye, and I wonder how many of us could examine our own principles and find nothing at all inconsistent in them. For example I've just said animals killed for meat do suffer, which kinda advocates vegetarianism and I am vegetarian, but I'm not vegan, and dairy farms are often just as bad.

Brian and Roger staying friends, despite all that, really isn't that strange either. Some of my friends are Tory supporters, it's hard but we get by. :P It's not entirely one sided either. Brian loves animals and Roger likes shooting them, but Roger wrote Foreign Sand and with the best will in the world, Brian's "this country should be better than that...British badgers" type statements are what Roger would call "jingoist lingo". ;)
Last edited by Belle Leisha on Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby EaP » Fri Nov 02, 2012 8:13 pm

blimey, you lefties are a vicious bunch when you get going! :lol:

it's been a while. how are you all, ok? :)
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby icy » Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:39 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
icy wrote:There is no doubt in my mind that hurting/killing an animal for fun is disgusting and IMO very wrong...I hope we all are clear on that much. If not before, there it is now. Would I wish death and happily wish it on someone who did hurt/kill animal~No.


So a person that clubs a baby seal to death (not for food but for profit) deserves to walk this planet? Or the man that beats his own dog to death? Or that CUxT on youtube who fed pet cats to his snake for pleasure? They should allowed to live and breed? And I disgust you?!!! Ha ha, brilliant. You disgust me.

Yes, those people deserve to walk the planet, live, breed. Punish the animal abusers, I'm all for it, but not the way you have in mind.
Yes, some of your thinking process on this topic disgusts me. I get that you love animals, and that this is a hot button issue. You are the one in a tiz talking about the ones who needlessly hurt/kill animals~ shooting, drowning, injecting people and now you post that you will rejoice in their deaths, that those people deserve to die the most horrific deaths possible, statements like those ones disgusts me...wow, how mature, sesnbile and peace loving of you to make them.
Can you/anyone tell me what the RSPCA freedom foods is about?
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby icy » Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:38 pm

EaP wrote:blimey, you lefties are a vicious bunch when you get going! :lol:

it's been a while. how are you all, ok? :)

Hope you have been well these days :-)
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby musicalprostitute » Sat Nov 03, 2012 4:25 pm

icy wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
icy wrote:There is no doubt in my mind that hurting/killing an animal for fun is disgusting and IMO very wrong...I hope we all are clear on that much. If not before, there it is now. Would I wish death and happily wish it on someone who did hurt/kill animal~No.


So a person that clubs a baby seal to death (not for food but for profit) deserves to walk this planet? Or the man that beats his own dog to death? Or that CUxT on youtube who fed pet cats to his snake for pleasure? They should allowed to live and breed? And I disgust you?!!! Ha ha, brilliant. You disgust me.

Yes, those people deserve to walk the planet, live, breed. Punish the animal abusers, I'm all for it, but not the way you have in mind.
Yes, some of your thinking process on this topic disgusts me. I get that you love animals, and that this is a hot button issue. You are the one in a tiz talking about the ones who needlessly hurt/kill animals~ shooting, drowning, injecting people and now you post that you will rejoice in their deaths, that those people deserve to die the most horrific deaths possible, statements like those ones disgusts me...wow, how mature, sesnbile and peace loving of you to make them.
Can you/anyone tell me what the RSPCA freedom foods is about?


I am peace-loving actually. Just not towards tossers who gain pleasure from hurting animals. And I am not in 'a tiz' about it, just stating the cold plain facts. What does it matter to you if such a cruel, evil piece of garbage that clubs a seal to death dies? I would laugh while they died - watch and laugh. Just to watch the tables turn would be a beautiful feeling.

Now, as this is getting a tad monotonous and we seem to be going round in circles, let's just agree to disagree. We will never see eye to eye on this subject - I disgust you; you disgust me blah blah blah, it could go on for months. You will never accept my point of view, and I will never accept yours, so let's leave it there.

I'm off to watch some video clips of matadors being hurt. Toodle pips.
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby she4bikes » Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:08 am

Well, if you Brits don't want Roger, then please send him to California!! We would take him in a heartbeat! Regarding animals, I try to ride my bicycle (yep, love the song!) as much as possible (don't own a vehicle), thereby avoiding hitting and killing them. By far, more animals are killed by vehicles in California, than by hunters.
 
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby Simon » Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:55 pm

one is deliberate, the other isn't. From an ethical point of view, Roger is at an disadvantage.
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Re: Roger and blood sports.

Postby she4bikes » Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:05 pm

Simon wrote:one is deliberate, the other isn't. From an ethical point of view, Roger is at an disadvantage.

Actually, I agree. I too hate actions against animals. One can just imagine how many humans have been hunted throughout the history and prehistory of humankind. Project this awful thought to current hunting of innocent animals! Barbaric madness and stupidity! I am just not sure some vehicle kills of animals and humans are "accidental", at least in this country. At the very least, vehicle drivers have become desensitized to animal deaths, leading to objectifying of animals and perhaps humans, and further acceptance of killing as in hunting. From here I should probably switch to the gun control thread!!
 
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