What if money didn't matter ?

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What if money didn't matter ?

Postby TheHero » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:00 am

Please take a look at this, and then perhaps share your thoughts on the topic of this video. Is he into something? Does he have a point, or is it a sort of propaganda.. ? Obviously, someone has got to work, and keep the wheels running. Without food we starve. We need clothes, dentists, hospitals ++

I just think it is easier said than done, but thats just my opinion.

Even if you choose a job you like, it is a job no matter what. 8 hours a day, working to earn your money.

Or maybe I am wrong..

Share your views on the topic.

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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:09 pm

"All retch and no vomit" - Lol. :P

Of course he's right, and it's not propaganda, it's pointing out something we all know but generally take no notice of. We're taught from the moment we can be taught, that you have to get a job, to earn money, to be able to live. I don't see any other possible way we would have seventeen year old's filling in their uni application forms to study business management. When I was 17 I wanted to marry Orlando Bloom.

People with dreams of being artists of any kind or similar things that are only lucrative at the very, very top, are told they're unrealistic. As is anyone who asks questions like what if money didn't matter. And they're right, to an extent, in this society, now, if you don't earn money, you can't really do anything at all, be it things you like or things you don't like, so it's not very practical advice.

The thing is, money actually doesn't matter. Money is a fairly recent construct, an IOU to actual goods, an entirely unnecessary middle man, which leads to things like market crashes. Working hard is important, society constructs are important, but this particular construct is only important right now, it won't last. Go back a couple of hundred years and no one would have believed then, that absolute servitude of King and country, would ever stop mattering. What would be the point in anything we do, work, earn money etc, if none of it gave us a better quality of life, i.e, let us do what we actually want to do? It's a means to an end, nothing more. It won't even be that for long. :)
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby TheHero » Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:38 pm

But isn`t an artistic education, or to choose not to work, a luxury that is not for everyone to choose ?

Most people on this planet have to spend all their time working for a living..
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby P.T » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:20 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:The thing is, money actually doesn't matter. Money is a fairly recent construct, an IOU to actual goods, an entirely unnecessary middle man, which leads to things like market crashes. Working hard is important, society constructs are important, but this particular construct is only important right now, it won't last.


How recent do you think money is? Humans have been trading coins for services for a good 3000 years, but it feels like they've only just got good at exploiting us in the last ten years.

All I can say is the main principle of our society does seem to be 'Every man for himself', whereas we'd surely be more prosperous under the principle of 'We're all in this together'.

What TheHero said is also correct, tell me how many artists in history have ever made money out of what they do? Even Van Gogh was quite poor, he only made money out of his work because his brother was a good businessman and an art dealer and yet he's one of the most well known artists in history.
 
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:39 pm

FreddiesWhiteDove wrote:
Belle Leisha wrote:The thing is, money actually doesn't matter. Money is a fairly recent construct, an IOU to actual goods, an entirely unnecessary middle man, which leads to things like market crashes. Working hard is important, society constructs are important, but this particular construct is only important right now, it won't last.


How recent do you think money is? Humans have been trading coins for services for a good 3000 years, but it feels like they've only just got good at exploiting us in the last ten years.

All I can say is the main principle of our society does seem to be 'Every man for himself', whereas we'd surely be more prosperous under the principle of 'We're all in this together'.

What TheHero said is also correct, tell me how many artists in history have ever made money out of what they do? Even Van Gogh was quite poor, he only made money out of his work because his brother was a good businessman and an art dealer and yet he's one of the most well known artists in history.


Money as we know it now, as in bank notes that represent goods. Trading in coins is slightly different. I'd say we've gotten very bad at money, in the last ten years ish, rather than good. :P

We can't all be in it together, until that includes rich people, which it never does.

Well, hundreds of thousands of artists are making money out of what they do right now. Directors, animators, illustrators, graphic designers, game makers ...etc. So loads. Van Gogh is among the romantic few who only made money once they were dead. A few years ago I thought it was a unrealistic career to the point I got a degree in it I never planned to use except for my own satisfaction. My plan then, was to be a firefighter. Now it would be easier to be a professional illustrator!
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:42 pm

TheHero wrote:But isn`t an artistic education, or to choose not to work, a luxury that is not for everyone to choose ?

Most people on this planet have to spend all their time working for a living..


Of course! More than that, an education past school of any description, or the ability to get a jot, is a luxury not everyone can choose.

That's kinda the point, isn't it? We have to work, because you can't do anything without money, including continue living. But he's saying what's the point in living if you don't have any life. It's an ideal, but it's not any kind of abstract or new idea, that money itself, isn't what we should be aiming for. It's a means to an end.
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby P.T » Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:54 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:Money as we know it now, as in bank notes that represent goods. Trading in coins is slightly different. I'd say we've gotten very bad at money, in the last ten years ish, rather than good. :P


Yeah, I suppose coins were more of a commodity back then as they were made of something worthwhile than just being representative of a figure stored in a computer.

Belle Leisha wrote:We can't all be in it together, until that includes rich people, which it never does.


It's an idealistic view of how society should be, just as one with no money is. We all tread on people to get to the top, very few of us look back to see who we've trodden on and of those that do, even fewer care. Tell me how society can operate without money though, most people would live their lives bathing on a sunny beach if money was no object.

Belle Leisha wrote:Well, hundreds of thousands of artists are making money out of what they do right now. Directors, animators, illustrators, graphic designers, game makers ...etc. So loads. Van Gogh is among the romantic few who only made money once they were dead. A few years ago I thought it was a unrealistic career to the point I got a degree in it I never planned to use except for my own satisfaction. My plan then, was to be a firefighter. Now it would be easier to be a professional illustrator!


That's very true actually, why did I just think of artists as people who paint pictures? *facepalm* Although music is in a very similar category and people aren't making as much money from that anymore, because it's all about mass production rather than quality and expression. Art shouldn't be about money at all.
 
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby TheHero » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:14 pm

I think art is important. We need art, theater, music, paintings, movies, books etc.

But how can you do what you want without any money ?
I am sure most people would like to be free. To get up at 7 each morning to go to work, is that being free?

I mean even if you got a day-time job you are comfortable with, you have to go to work each morning, and be there 8 hours 5 days a week. Is that the limit of freedom. In our world, is that as free as you can possibly be ?
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby Elessar » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:19 pm

While in theory it would be nice to be 'free', it wouldn't really be much fun having to grow and hunt my own food, make my own clothes, build my own house from materials I'd gathered myself, and then bury myself when I die. A far better system is to pay others to do those things for me, with money I've earned by doing things that other people need and don't do themselves.
 
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:21 pm

At this moment, in this (capitalist) society, it's just an abstract question, just like if you could go anywhere in the world now, where would you go and would you go into outer space if you could. As you can't, it's not a practical question, but it still has an answer. Capitalism means a society that serves capital, and we don't have any choice about that. If money didn't matter, we'd all be very different. Or mostly. I suppose you'd still have the greedy few who want more of their very own desert island than everybody else, and so on.

I do think it would be very few though. We don't fight over things that are abundant. In this country at least, we all, or an overwhelming majority of us, have access to running water. None of us are hoarding it in our bathtubs. If food were readily available, and shelter and so on, we wouldn't compete over that either. Most of us.

If everyone had their basic needs covered, which there is enough resource in the world to do, easily, and people could only 'earn' up to a certain amount above that, four times, shall we say, rather than the current many billions of times, dependent on they're dedication to the role they play, then money wouldn't be needed at all. We'd most likely return to a form of barter system, the basic necessities are not in question, each has his need, then what you contribute is based on what you can contribute, so if you're a talented artist, that's what you'll be and if you're a great politician, that's you. For those who want to work 100% of the time, you can gain more within reason, luxuries, if you like, by doing that to your absolute capacity.* Or, from each according to his ability, to each according to his need. ;)

*Content shamelessly stolen from Das Kapital.
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby Belle Leisha » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:22 pm

Elessar wrote:While in theory it would be nice to be 'free', it wouldn't really be much fun having to grow and hunt my own food, make my own clothes, build my own house from materials I'd gathered myself, and then bury myself when I die. A far better system is to pay others to do those things for me, with money I've earned by doing things that other people need and don't do themselves.


Which would be fine, if what everyone earned was proportionate to what they do, which it isn't and if the services provided were of reasonable and regulated levels that didn't put them out of the reach of many, which they aren't.
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby P.T » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:27 pm

TheHero wrote:But how can you do what you want without any money ?
I am sure most people would like to be free. To get up at 7 each morning to go to work, is that being free?


No, we've been pressured by society into thinking that we need to work the majority of our waking hours for 45 years of our life so we can buy a big house, a fancy car, the latest iPhone and go on holiday for two weeks of the year. We're a very materialistic society, we want to be better than the man next door, but only if we can have a bigger telly. Most people are content to spend their money on alcohol at the end of the week and then do it all again and again week after week and not really contribute to humanity.

I'm quite happy earning the small amount of money I do and being a bit of a wayfarer. I've been abroad four times this year and spent around 8 weeks in other countries. I'd rather live this way than live how my mum has, tied to her job, living borderline in debt where she'll be stuck for at least another 20 something years.

It's funny how closed-minded people are. For the cost of an XBOX game, you can fly to Holland. For the cost of a shirt from Superdry, you can fly to Italy. And yet what do most people choose?
 
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby TheHero » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:33 pm

Have we gone too far, should we go back in time ?

Did the people of the stone-age live a happier life ? Perhaps they felt a tiny bit more of freedom, but as said above, they had to do everything themselves.. hunt, make clothes, etc. And of course there were many disadvantages being outside in the cold, wet winters.. They also lived a shorter life. 30 years was considered a long life back then.
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby TheHero » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:44 pm

FreddiesWhiteDove wrote:
TheHero wrote:But how can you do what you want without any money ?
I am sure most people would like to be free. To get up at 7 each morning to go to work, is that being free?



It's funny how closed-minded people are. For the cost of an XBOX game, you can fly to Holland. For the cost of a shirt from Superdry, you can fly to Italy. And yet what do most people choose?


I see your point, but traveling around the World for the cost of an xbox game would surly not be possible if we did not have our advanced society, that is based on that people are willing to educate themselves, and to work hard each and every day. Someone has to build, construct and maintain the plane for it to work. Someone has got to pump up the oil from the bottom of the sea, transport it to an oil-raffinery, where it is given a treat, so that it can be used as aeroplane-fuel later on... And obviously someone has to work at the airport too, and you would also need a captain on board the plane. At least I would prefer if someone could bring the plane safely back on the ground.
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Re: What if money didn't matter ?

Postby P.T » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:51 pm

TheHero wrote:Have we gone too far, should we go back in time ?


No, we should just re-educate people, change their point of view and stop people feeling pressured by others to out-bling each other. It's not about not spending, it's just about perhaps excepting a lower wage and spending the money you DO earn on more useful things.

A mate of mine earns maybe £30,000 to £35,000 a year more than me working in London. He's up at the crack of dawn, squeezes on the Tube like a factory chicken in the morning and he's sometimes still in the office 14 or 15 hours later. He's just bought himself a few weeks in Miami and drives a nice car, could easily afford his own place. I envy him for that, but I don't envy him for his lifestyle. I don't think anyone NEEDS to work that hard. Especially if all you're doing is sitting in an office crunching numbers.
 
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