Gun Control

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Gun Control

Postby Hueyqueen » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:05 pm

Okay, I've kept my mouth shut on this topic for a long time. I quit Facebook because of this because apparently anything I say is subject to ridicule by some of the more religious right wing members of my family. No offense to them by the way, they are my family and I love them but the internet is not about taking everything personally as an attack on personal values.

Let me point out firstly, that I don't think it is either a good idea to a) repeal the Second Amendment, or b) take guns that people currently own away from them. If you already own certain assault rifles or large magazines, you can keep them. I have no idea why you need such things but I don't believe in seizing other people's property.

However, I have learned that yesterday in my hometown of Chicago that their were at least three separate instances of shootings that left five people dead and more wounded. When do we (the United States) as a nation say enough is enough? How many people have to die in senseless shootings before we have stricter gun control laws in this country?

On assault rifles: Why do you need them? I mean seriously, it is called an ASSAULT rifle. If you are not planning to assault anyone, what is the point of owning them?

Does anyone seriously believe that it is inappropriate to make it illegal for people who have committed a crime or are mentally ill to own guns? Does that seriously threaten any kind of democracy of the United States? Even if you are a gun owner, do you want a criminal or mentally disturbed person to have access to guns? Is it not in your best interest to protect yourself by not having people who are crazy or criminals owning guns?

Now this is my personal opinion and I need to point this out because I am not in a position to make this a law or make this in any way official practice. I believe that, outside of firearms specifically used for hunting, I think that the rule should be one handgun per household for protection purposes. I also think it is important to keep the gun locked up and deactivated so that children do not have access to them.

I am tired of these tragedies occurring. And I would also like to point out that the majority of people are in favor of stricter gun laws. The majority of Republicans are also in favor. Even the majority of gun owners are in favor of these types of restrictions, reasonable, sane restrictions. Unfortunately the NRA who have Republican Senators and Congressmen in their pockets will not allow even these simple, logical restrictions in place.

Anyway, I would love to hear your thoughts on this. I know a lot of you live in other countries and I would love to get your opinion but I would also love to get the opinions of the Americans on here too.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby JLP » Sun Jan 27, 2013 8:44 pm

I am with you on this. Trouble is, whenever there is a shooting in the USA and the subject gets debated, the pro gun lobby shoot down the anti gun lobby..
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Kes » Tue Jan 29, 2013 9:59 am

Being honest, if I lived in the US permanently, I'd want a handgun, at the very least.

Kung fu's no bloody use when the person sneaking in your house at three in the morning is tooled up like a Navy SEAL.

Gun control, amnesties, and all that stuff is only any use if the whole society wants to play ball.

I could add that back in the seventies, no-one wore crash helmets on motorbikes, so you can take away little bits of freedom if common sense prevails, and everyone wants it.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby fairydandy » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:24 pm

The atrocities will keep on happening for sure. I don't know what the answer is. :?
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Hueyqueen » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:42 pm

Another couple of shootings. A young girl who performed at the President's inauguration and an office shooting. It makes me sick.

I emailed my Congressman and I want to organize or join some kind of grassroots rally or petition or something.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Fizzle » Thu Jan 31, 2013 6:43 am

The number of gun-related deaths in the USA is horrific. I want to own my own handgun (don't really need an assault rifle) just for personal protection. So many violent crimes & robberies around here, & I live in a small town.

I know many gun enthusiasts. My good friend for example, collects them, and owns several assault rifles. He has two reasons for having them, which seem common with other people I know: for the sake of his collection, and for the sake of having the same weapons government peoples & the military have access to. He wants to be able to defend himself & family against oppressive government, or enemy, if need be. The way I see it; in that kind of situation the gov. would have the upper hand anyway.

I understand both sides here. I understand responsible weapon owners having a problem with the government taking their weapons away. But the majority of opinions I hear on this case are sooooooo ignorant (I have actually had this said to me, "That black guy with the funny name ain't takin mah guns!"

Obviously these powerful weapons are in the hands of a lot of dangerous people. But if they were completely banned would that not lead to the innocent being unarmed, and the dangerous keeping their weapons anyway? Isn't that how it is in Brazil? Correct me if I'm wrong, I just know what I've read.

I am all for stricter regulations on gun ownership. Much sillier things are regulated heavier in this country than dangerous weapons.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Kes » Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:19 pm

I wonder what the ratio is the USA? The one between "guilty" people in the process of committing crimes getting killed by guns compared to innocent people, accidents or victims of killing sprees.

Be an interesting statistic, that one!

Also, does the fact that a house owner probably possesses a gun, have ANY effect on whether they get burgled, or whether a person going burgling carries a gun or not?
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Re: Gun Control

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:21 pm

Hueyqueen, I agree with what you said.
There seems to be this idea among gun supporters that the second amendment means no regulations, and that they can just do whatever they want. No freedom comes with that though. There is freedom of speech but you can't yell fire in a crowded room if there isn't one. Alcohol is legal but there is a limit to how much you can have to drive safely.
I don't want to take anyone's guns away and nothing can be prevented 100% but for goodness sake we are capable of doing something that might help prevent future tragedies from happening. We'd be stupid not to try.
And every once in a while even a conservative might come up with a good idea. One of our Republican state representatives wants to make a gun safety program mandatory for 1st graders. At first I didn't know what that meant and it sounded awful until I learned its a video telling children if they find a gun unsupervised to not touch it and get a trusted adult to help. I forget the statistics but if you have a gun in your home with children, the chances of an accident occurring is higher than the probability of you using it for protection against an intruder.
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby WeeMann » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:36 pm

Fizzle wrote:I know many gun enthusiasts. My good friend for example, collects them, and owns several assault rifles. He has two reasons for having them, which seem common with other people I know: for the sake of his collection, and for the sake of having the same weapons government peoples & the military have access to. He wants to be able to defend himself & family against oppressive government, or enemy, if need be. The way I see it; in that kind of situation the gov. would have the upper hand anyway.


That just reeks of extreme paranoia to me. I know not every American has this view, so my comments aren't intended as sweeping statements that include everyone, but is the country really that paranoid that they can't see they live in an extremely free society?

Do you really want killing tools in the hands of people with such extreme views?

Fizzle wrote:Obviously these powerful weapons are in the hands of a lot of dangerous people. But if they were completely banned would that not lead to the innocent being unarmed, and the dangerous keeping their weapons anyway? Isn't that how it is in Brazil? Correct me if I'm wrong, I just know what I've read.


The innocent are just as unarmed in the UK and other countries and our gun crime figures are nowhere near those of the US.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Montavilla » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:29 pm

WeeMann wrote:
Fizzle wrote:I know many gun enthusiasts. My good friend for example, collects them, and owns several assault rifles. He has two reasons for having them, which seem common with other people I know: for the sake of his collection, and for the sake of having the same weapons government peoples & the military have access to. He wants to be able to defend himself & family against oppressive government, or enemy, if need be. The way I see it; in that kind of situation the gov. would have the upper hand anyway.


That just reeks of extreme paranoia to me. I know not every American has this view, so my comments aren't intended as sweeping statements that include everyone, but is the country really that paranoid that they can't see they live in an extremely free society?

Do you really want killing tools in the hands of people with such extreme views?


My views on the subject (I'm generally pro gun control) are influenced by where I grew up, which was in a fairly large city. There's no need for anybody I know to own a gun unless the urban coyotes start eating our cats and dogs.

But... this sort of gets swept under the carpet in America. We did have a war about 150 years ago where the government pointed guns at about half the citizens of the country (to be fair, the Confederates were pointing guns right back). The Union Army marched all the way to Atlanta, burning everything along the way. Many people lost everything, including their lives.

We all kissed and made up, but the scars are still there. So, I can understand that there are people who fear that, without a way to defend themselves and their property, the government might someday get it into their heads to do that sort of thing again. Not for the same reasons, but reason and violence seldom go hand in hand.

By the way, I'm am in no way justifying the institutional slavery -- and violence -- of the Old South. Just saying that, if you've had the army knocking down your door for whatever reason, pointing a gun at you, and setting fire to your drapes, you'd probably put a premium on the Second Amendment.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby P.T » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:35 pm

Gun laws in the USA need to be the same as in civilised countries.

They're too easy to use, too convenient. Fact is, I can sit in the bushes popping people off from a distance and no one sees me. With a knife, I physically have to approach them and be close enough to stab them and in the right place as well if I want to kill them. It's much more effort and they can fight back so much easier than hitting them with a bullet.
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Belle Leisha » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:50 pm

FreddiesWhiteDove wrote:Gun laws in the USA need to be the same as in civilised countries.

They're too easy to use, too convenient. Fact is, I can sit in the bushes popping people off from a distance and no one sees me. With a knife, I physically have to approach them and be close enough to stab them and in the right place as well if I want to kill them. It's much more effort and they can fight back so much easier than hitting them with a bullet.


We follow the US into wars, and we suck up to them for our 'special relationship' like an embarrassing sidekick, so I don't know how confident I'd be calling them uncivilized by comparison.
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Re: Gun Control

Postby fairydandy » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:52 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
FreddiesWhiteDove wrote:Gun laws in the USA need to be the same as in civilised countries.

They're too easy to use, too convenient. Fact is, I can sit in the bushes popping people off from a distance and no one sees me. With a knife, I physically have to approach them and be close enough to stab them and in the right place as well if I want to kill them. It's much more effort and they can fight back so much easier than hitting them with a bullet.


We follow the US into wars, and we suck up to them for our 'special relationship' like an embarrassing sidekick, so I don't know how confident I'd be calling them uncivilized by comparison.


I feel really embarrassed about that 'special relationship' that we keep talking about.
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby P.T » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:15 pm

Belle Leisha wrote:
FreddiesWhiteDove wrote:Gun laws in the USA need to be the same as in civilised countries.

They're too easy to use, too convenient. Fact is, I can sit in the bushes popping people off from a distance and no one sees me. With a knife, I physically have to approach them and be close enough to stab them and in the right place as well if I want to kill them. It's much more effort and they can fight back so much easier than hitting them with a bullet.


We follow the US into wars, and we suck up to them for our 'special relationship' like an embarrassing sidekick, so I don't know how confident I'd be calling them uncivilized by comparison.


"We" don't, our government drags us in whether us citizens like it or not. And we don't like it. We don't like riding America's dick while being teabagged by the EU either. On the other side of the coin, I get a feeling the US government are softening up to the idea of stricter gun control but are too scared to say it, especially when the screaming mob of Americans outside are asking for MORE guns.
 
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Re: Gun Control

Postby Belle Leisha » Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:11 pm

FreddiesWhiteDove wrote:
"We" don't, our government drags us in whether us citizens like it or not. And we don't like it. We don't like riding America's dick while being teabagged by the EU either. On the other side of the coin, I get a feeling the US government are softening up to the idea of stricter gun control but are too scared to say it, especially when the screaming mob of Americans outside are asking for MORE guns.


Ah, would that be why both the Afghanistan and Iraq wars had about 50% approval from the British public when they started? :P There's no need whatsoever, to turn this into an anti-American thing. "We" personally definitely had nothing to do with the existing gun laws here, we can count ourselves lucky, but not better! Many Americans want gun control, just as enough Americans were liberal enough to vote Obama into office and as you say he at least now seems pretty convinced something has to change. The screaming mob you're talking about are a minority.
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