Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

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Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby funkyrake » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:05 am

I am pondering and researching this topic. Currently I am learning small compost making at a local community farm. The farm manager uses manure acquired from outside the farm. Is manure a necessary ingredient for compost? Also is blood meal necessary as a fertiizer? Is any manure necessary for fertilizing or fertigating?
Also is humane farming realy humane? Are animals necessary in food production?
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Tarkus » Sun Mar 03, 2013 2:41 am

Welcome to QOL! I'm vegan myself, and my wife and I try our best to grow our own veg so as to not rely so much on shop-bought stuff. We have a composter in our shed, and make our own compost. You don't need manure to make it- we primarily use grass cuttings, paper waste and kitchen scraps (In our case that's the bits of vegetables that get chopped off during food prep that aren't eaten). It's perfectly possible to organically grow vegetables using vegan methods- although many commercial stores sell blood and bone meal as fertiliser, you don't need it and can get perfectly good results without using it. The composter we use has a chamber at the bottom that collects all the liquids from the vegetation being composted, and syphons it to a tap where it can be run off and collected into bottles. When diluted down, that makes amazing liquid fertiliser, and not a scrap of any animal products anywhere!
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Lino » Sun Mar 03, 2013 12:15 pm

I heard of using coffee sediments, the ones you get after you filter the coffee. And with all the sediments, I think it's quite practical. I believe zoos use the animal crap to fertilize lands and so on. I know that in my region, with all the land to fertilize for cereal, they use animal crap (which smells bad).
I am not a vegan nor vegetarian, though I know a few of people, and I respect it. But I prefer to eat a balanced meal with all elements of the food pyramid.
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby funkyrake » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:45 pm

Thanks! Dr. May's fantastic work with badger culls and cattle (bovine disease) inspires me on this topic. I therefore offer some of my research
http://passionforfreshideas.com/audio/f ... c-farming/

The next article was originally published through CNN but when clicking onto CNN's link, the link breaks. So this url gives the article in its entireity.
http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic ... ext-level/

The smell, Lino, IMO means something is wrong. Bacteria overload in animals means trouble for humans.

Let's keep this topic going, please!
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Lino » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:04 pm

well, crap must have some smell, even elefant's crap is smelly... bacteria exist everywhere, not just in meat.
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby funkyrake » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:21 pm

So carrying the discussion in the direction of farm health and safety, diseases related to farm animal production include the infamous mad cow disease. I offer a link which is peer reiewed,, i.e., scholarly www.ourfood.com/BSE.html. Another good site discusses general diseases caused by farm animals to humans:
http://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/animals/farm_animals.htm

The idea is the health hazards associated with farm animals is not worth their room and board, and existence in or food system. Searches under this topic should include the word 'compost' to gain a full understanding of the health issues.
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby pow wow » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:25 pm

As an allotment holder I save a fortune my making my own compost. My compost bin is made up of 3ft wooden pallets. An ideal compost should have a mixture of what's called browns (carbon - leaves, paper etc) and greens (nitrogen - tea, coffee, garden refuse etc). Don't forget to turn it over every so often and to pee in it as it acts as an accelerant :) .

Another option is to grow what's called a green manure in the place where you want to sow. Mustard seed is good, just let it grow for a few weeks then turn it in to the soil, easy.

Have a look at http://www.allotment.org.uk as its the best resource for all things home grown.
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby funkyrake » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:02 pm

Yes! I signed up for the newsletter for that site! It is good to tunrn often to keep the temperature high. Loe the info on greens (nitrogen=grass clippings, food scraps, coffe grouds) to browns (carbon=hay, light plant tree and herbaceous stems, etc) and alternating them in layers

Now, is humane farming really humane? Here is one sitehttp://www.humanemyth.org/

How many animals slaughtered? http://www.humanesociety.org/news/resou ... otals.html

Regarding alling animal farming truly humane may be a stretch:

Arguments Against Humane Meat http://animalrights.about.com/od/animal ... neMeat.htm
"...•There is no such thing as humane meat. Using an animal for food violates the animal’s right to life and freedom, and cannot be humane.
• Calling some animal products “humane” leads people to believe that animals do not suffer on “humane” farms, when in fact, they do. For example, male babies of egg-laying hens are still killed, and male dairy cattle are still killed. Also, HumaneMyth.org explains:
At all farms, large-scale and small-scale, laying hens are killed when their production declines, typically within two years, as feeding these worn-out individuals cuts directly into profits. Often the bodies of "spent" hens are so ravaged that no one will buy them, and they are ground into fertilizer or just sent to a landfill.

•Some humane standards can be woefully inadequate, even by animal welfare standards. Giving animals enough room to spread their wings or turn around does not mean they will have enough room to fly or walk around. They will still be crowded and will still suffer.
•Requiring larger cages or larger pens will require more space and more deforestation than factory farms already require. Nine billion land animals are killed for human consumption every year in the U.S. Giving 9 billion animals enough land to roam would be an environmental disaster.
•Humane meat is not more sustainable than factory farming. The animals will require just as much food and water, if not more, because they will be moving around more and exercising more.
•Humane meat campaigns sometimes send a confusing message. Nine years after declaring victory in their McCruelty campaign against McDonald's, PETA resurrected their McCruelty campaign in 2008 to make further demands.
•Instituting humane standards causes some vegetarians and vegans to start consuming meat and other animal products again.
•Spending resources on reform campaigns takes movement resources away from campaigns to promote veganism.
•Humane standards do nothing to challenge the right of humans to use other animals, and has nothing to do with animal rights. We should promote veganism instead of more “humane” ways of exploiting animals.

Animal activists sometimes debate whether promoting veganism helps animals more than humane reforms, but we may never know. The debate is one that divides some groups and activists, but the animal agriculture industry fights both types of campaigns...."
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Innuendoes » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:12 pm

funkyrake wrote:So carrying the discussion in the direction of farm health and safety, diseases related to farm animal production include the infamous mad cow disease. I offer a link which is peer reiewed,, i.e., scholarly http://www.ourfood.com/BSE.html. Another good site discusses general diseases caused by farm animals to humans:
http://www.cdc.gov/healthypets/animals/farm_animals.htm

The idea is the health hazards associated with farm animals is not worth their room and board, and existence in or food system. Searches under this topic should include the word 'compost' to gain a full understanding of the health issues.

What are you proposing to do? Shut down all farms in the US and stop eating meat, altogether? Fish, too?

What about this?

2012 Number of Farms and Land in the USA
The number of farms in the United States in 2012 is estimated at 2.2 million, down 11,630 farms from 2011. Total land in farms, at 914 million acres, decreased 3 million acres from 2011. The average farm size is 421 acres, up 1 acre from the previous year.What is going to happen to all those families who live on those farms, own them, work the land, the crops and the livestock if they get shut down?

http://usda01.library.cornell.edu/usda/ ... 9-2013.pdf
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Innuendoes » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:21 pm

Terrible conditions at all beef farms...

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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Lino » Tue Mar 05, 2013 11:36 pm

Some of the best beef I ate was in the Azores, Brazil and northern Portugal. And why? In these places, plus Argentina, cows and oxes grow in these wide areas, mountains, full of grass and water, where the animals can walk around freely. And with all the exercise and good food they eat slowly and abbundantly, the meet will be full of aroma, soft and very rich. The best chickens I ate were those from the countryside, small villages, and I would see my granny prepare them.
Now with industrial farming... no flavour, hard meat and crap veggies. Strawberries have no flavour now because they're grown in a hurry. Good wine needs good grapes grown slowly and collected when they tell the enologist when they're good.

Some of the worst famine cases come from inequal chances of money distribution or areas were droughts are harsh because of bad water and land politics. And of course, wars. We have lots of food, some people eat shitloads of food and others what they can collect from a trashcan. We throw away lots of food, factories that distribute food throw good fruit away because of a smaller size or a "bad" shape and the rest is rubbish. We cook and throw away lots of food. You go to a wedding and spend all day eating 5 or 6 courses. Why that?
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Belle Leisha » Wed Mar 06, 2013 12:36 pm

Innuendoes wrote:Terrible conditions at all beef farms...

Image


To be fair they do still get slaughtered, I'd call that a bad deal.
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Tarkus » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:31 pm

Why would a change from meat production mean that a farm has to shut down? Surely the farm would go to being an arable farm that grows crops for human consumption. if we didn't have to feed two thirds of what we grow to food animals, we'd have more than enough food to go around, to the point where we could send the surplus to the parts of the world that are starving. There would be plenty enough food to go around for everyone on the planet. Animals like sheep, pigs and cows wouldn't go extinct either, as there are still wild species that haven't been domesticated- they would be as much under threat of extinction as the horse was when the internal combustion engine was invented. As for what we'd do with all the farm animals we have at the moment, well, those who eat meat would eat them- it wouldn't take long.

I would also advocate halting the consumption of fish as well- wild fish stocks are being grossly depleted through over-fishing, as well as being contaminated with mercury poisoning by human pollution, and the practise of deep-water trawling is causing irreparable damage to reefs around the world, in which many fish species need safety in which to spawn.
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Belle Leisha » Wed Mar 06, 2013 4:50 pm

Tarkus wrote: if we didn't have to feed two thirds of what we grow to food animals, we'd have more than enough food to go around, to the point where we could send the surplus to the parts of the world that are starving. There would be plenty enough food to go around for everyone on the planet.


This part isn't quite right. I agree essentially, the idea thousands of jobs would be lost if we changed from meat production to vegan production is wrong. Whatever the many and varied issues would be, that isn't a necessary one, as obviously we'd still need food production. We do already have more than enough food to go around though, we simply don't distribute any of our resources properly and there's no reason to think we would do if we did move to vegan farming.
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Tarkus » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:42 pm

There may be enough food to go around now, but what about coping with the increase in demand as the population booms? Every year, an area of rain forest the size of Califonia is felled to clear space for land to feed cattle. This will get worse as the population increases and the demand for meat goes up- not to mention the global environmental impact of all the methane produced by the animals, as well as the carbon footprint of all the vehicles used in meat production, transport and distribution, which is being offset less and less due to the diminishing forests. Sooner or later, the world may HAVE to consider the vegan alternative, or we'll all suffer the consequences, be they environmental or otherwise.
 
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