Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Belle Leisha » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:51 pm

Tarkus wrote:There may be enough food to go around now, but what about coping with the increase in demand as the population booms? Every year, an area of rain forest the size of Califonia is felled to clear space for land to feed cattle. This will get worse as the population increases and the demand for meat goes up- not to mention the global environmental impact of all the methane produced by the animals, as well as the carbon footprint of all the vehicles used in meat production, transport and distribution, which is being offset less and less due to the diminishing forests. Sooner or later, the world may HAVE to consider the vegan alternative, or we'll all suffer the consequences, be they environmental or otherwise.


That is also by choice, we could leave the rain forests alone and use other ground, we use it cos it's cheap. I'd welcome a vegan alternative, but like energy alternatives it would only happen if we were left with no other option.
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Lino » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:07 pm

with the increase of soy demand, rainforests have been dizimated like the Amazon. Land, water, resources, and then GMO's, chemicals... we now don't respect the cycle of the land (for the resting and productive periods), nor the cycle of fruits, and have plants being grown away from their natural habitats.
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby funkyrake » Thu Mar 07, 2013 1:18 am

As described above vegan farming is food and fiber production without the use of animals or animal products. Once farmers (or gardeners) cave into the desire to include animals, no matter how few and small, the use of more and more animals and animal products becomes justified and drives a much less sustainable situation where the animals need food, shelter, medicine, and care to prevent inhumane treatment.
The trick is to keep production small. More farms with smaller acreage can really enhance life on planet Earth with diverse rich varieties and local trading and buying. Farmers Markets and farmstands rather than supermarkets/grocery stores create an atmosphere of mutual grower appreciation, while deepening our dependency on our neighbors and community rather than on long haul trucks. Using on farm (garden) waste to fertilize is so wonderfully right and, as was metioned, cuts down on our carbon footprnt while we move toward a sustainable compassionate world.
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Mar 07, 2013 2:43 am

Alright, so what do all you propose a person should do who can't survive on beans, peas and nuts and needs a high protein diet?
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Tarkus » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:24 am

Insufficient protein in the diet is the chief worry for those considering giving up meat, and it's the main reason put forward by meat marketing boards to put doubt in their minds- for obvious reasons. A human can gain more than sufficient protein in their diet from eating beans, pulses, legumes and seeds, as well as certain vegetables. There's also plenty of calcium to be found in certain vegetables, or calcium-enriched almond milk or other milk alternatives, eliminating the need for cow's milk. Humans don't need cow's milk- milk production evolved as a high protein, high fat food for baby animals in their first few weeks and months of their lives- adult animals or even humans have no need for it, apart from having something to put in their tea or coffee. Milk has too many fats for adult consumption, and adults don't really need casein or even lactose. Cow's milk is a highly nutritious miracle food- for baby cows, not for humans!
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Lino » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:05 am

You might not drink milk, but as my mother heard from a doctor, you may eat it as yoghurt, cheese, etc. When you eat eggs you don't harm animals as the edible eggs are not fertilized.
And when you breed cows in a intense production plant you may harm animals, but actually their death is quite fast by means of electric shocks. Bzzzt, next.
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:09 am

Tarkus wrote:Insufficient protein in the diet is the chief worry for those considering giving up meat, and it's the main reason put forward by meat marketing boards to put doubt in their minds- for obvious reasons. A human can gain more than sufficient protein in their diet from eating beans, pulses, legumes and seeds, as well as certain vegetables. There's also plenty of calcium to be found in certain vegetables, or calcium-enriched almond milk or other milk alternatives, eliminating the need for cow's milk. Humans don't need cow's milk- milk production evolved as a high protein, high fat food for baby animals in their first few weeks and months of their lives- adult animals or even humans have no need for it, apart from having something to put in their tea or coffee. Milk has too many fats for adult consumption, and adults don't really need casein or even lactose. Cow's milk is a highly nutritious miracle food- for baby cows, not for humans!


I have hypoglycemia, though. 1 hour after I have eaten meat, fish, eggs or cheese, my blood sugar is around 70. 100-120 is normal. The correct way to raise my blood sugar is with protein, not sugar because if I eat sugar on an empty stomach, it raises my blood sugar very fast, then drops it even faster to a lower level than it was before I ate the sugar. Not a good feeling in any way!!

No two hypoglycemics are the same and some do better with some diets than others, but if I don't eat meat, fish, eggs or cheese (and I am trying to stay away from eggs and cheese) every 3 hours or so, my blood sugar bottoms out. I don't drink milk anymore.

Beans and any other legumes other than peanuts give me severe gastric distress, causing me to have to go to bed because I am too sick to sit up for very long. The same, now, with most vegetables and also fruit. Because of severe food allergies, especially tomatoes and any type of pepper (which causes anaphylactic shock to begin, including asthma attacks) I can't have those, either. There is actually very little I CAN eat without getting sick. And if anyone should even walk past me with a plate or bag of food containing peppers or tomatoes, the allergic reaction starts, immediately and I have to get up and either get out of the room or often, I have to leave the building.

Now what?
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Lino » Thu Mar 07, 2013 10:13 am

and another thing: many times I see vegans I notice their skin is not that perfect. Very thin people, I always think that there's something missing there. And that new crazy diet based on raw veggies.... yikes.
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 07, 2013 12:19 pm

Anaphylaxis ≠ asthma attack
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby funkyrake » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:47 pm

A very compelling case for change:
Where's the beef? Cow shortage forcing industry to make rough cuts
WICHITA, Kan. – Years of drought are reshaping the U.S. beef industry with feedlots and a major meatpacking plant closing because there are too few cattle left in the United States to support them.

Some feedlots in the nation's major cattle-producing states have already been dismantled, and others are sitting empty. Operators say they don't expect a recovery anytime soon, with high feed prices, much of the country still in drought and a long time needed to rebuild herds.

The closures are the latest ripple in the shockwave the drought sent through rural communities. Most cattle in the U.S. are sent to feedlots for final fattening before slaughter. The dwindling number of animals also is hurting meatpackers, with their much larger workforces. For consumers, the impact will be felt in grocery and restaurant bills as a smaller meat supply means higher prices.

Owner Bob Podzemny has been taking apart the 32,000-head Union County Feed Yard near Clayton, N.M. It closed in 2009 when a bank shut off its operating capital in the midst of the financial crisis, and Podzemny said he doesn't see reopening after struggling through Chapter 11 bankruptcy.
For remaing article please see url http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/02/24/wh ... ough-cuts/
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:02 pm

Elessar wrote:Anaphylaxis ≠ asthma attack


Not quite!

Symptoms
Symptoms may include:
Urticaria (hives)
Swelling and irritation of the tongue or mouth
Swelling of the sinuses
Difficulty breathing
Wheezing
Cramping, vomiting, or diarrhea
Anxiety or confusion
Strong, very rapid heartbeat (palpitations)
Loss of consciousness.
Not all symptoms may be present.

Diagnosis
Anaphylaxis is diagnosed based on the rapid development of symptoms in response to a suspect allergen. Identification of the culprit may be done with RAST testing, a blood test that identifies IgE reactions to specific allergens. Skin testing may be done for less severe anaphylactic reactions.

Treatment
Emergency treatment of anaphylaxis involves injection of adrenaline (epinephrine) which constricts blood vessels and counteracts the effects of histamine. Oxygen may be given, as well as intravenous replacement fluids. Antihistamines may be used for skin rash, and aminophylline for bronchial constriction. If the upper airway is obstructed, placement of a breathing tube or tracheostomy tube may be needed.

Prognosis
The rapidity of symptom development is an indication of the likely severity of reaction: the faster symptoms develop, the more severe the ultimate reaction. Prompt emergency medical attention and close monitoring reduces the likelihood of death. Nonetheless, death is possible from severe anaphylaxis. For most people who receive rapid treatment, recovery is complete.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictio ... naphylaxis
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:40 pm

No mention of asthma anywhere there. Probably because they're different things. Lots of similarities, yes, and people who are prone to one are often prone to the other, but they are not the same thing. 'Anaphylactic shock' is a very specific state and doesn't 'include' asthma attacks.
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:54 pm

Elessar wrote:No mention of asthma anywhere there. Probably because they're different things. Lots of similarities, yes, and people who are prone to one are often prone to the other, but they are not the same thing. 'Anaphylactic shock' is a very specific state and doesn't 'include' asthma attacks.


I'm the one who has the symptoms, I'm the one who had to go to emergency numerous times because of it, had witnesses to it at work and I experienced both, Dr Elessar.
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Elessar » Thu Mar 07, 2013 8:57 pm

Innuendoes wrote:
Elessar wrote:No mention of asthma anywhere there. Probably because they're different things. Lots of similarities, yes, and people who are prone to one are often prone to the other, but they are not the same thing. 'Anaphylactic shock' is a very specific state and doesn't 'include' asthma attacks.


I'm the one who has the symptoms, I'm the one who had to go to emergency numerous times because of it, had witnesses to it at work and I experienced both, Dr Elessar.


I've never had a stroke or a heart attack, but I know they're not the same thing, and if someone who had suffered from both told me that they're the same thing, I'd (correctly) tell them that they're wrong.
 
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Re: Is Vegan Organic Farming Achievable?

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:01 pm

Elessar wrote:Anaphylaxis ≠ asthma attack


Didn't you just write this, earlier?

You've been with me when I experience the attacks? You see the pain in my throat, see me start having numb lips, tongue and start going into panic and you've heard me start wheezing and seen me having difficulty breathing?
 
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