Baroness Thatcher Dies

This is the place for topical debate and discussion about anything in the world (non-Queen related).

Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby WeeMann » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:00 pm

Breaking news, Margaret Thatcher died this morning following a stroke:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-2 ... WEET714901
DISCLAIMER: If you find a posting or message from me offensive, inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know how to ignore a post, complain to me and I will be only too happy to demonstrate.
 
WeeMann
Moderator
 
User avatar

 

Not even on the B list...

      
 
Posts: 6489
Images: 103
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:37 pm
Location: Shropshire
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 76 times
Been thanked: 166 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Kes » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:11 pm

Just heard.

No doubt there's some who'll be ecstatic at hearing this news.

Probably not the best prime minister we've ever had, but at least everybody knew she was in office.
What is left of your dream?
Just the words on your stone.
A man who learnt how to teach,
But forgot how to learn.
 
Kes
Moderator
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 15044
Images: 747
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:41 am
Location: London, England
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby JLP » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:35 pm

Kes wrote:Just heard.

No doubt there's some who'll be ecstatic at hearing this news.

Probably not the best prime minister we've ever had, but at least everybody knew she was in office.


I just got up after a night shift, flicked on Sky Sports News and it was on the ticker tape on there. Although we knew she was frail, it is still a shock.

I feel no joy at her passing, despite my opinions of her. May she rest in peace.
Come on you Tigers.
 
JLP
Site Admin
 
User avatar

 

Growing old disgracefully

      
 
Posts: 11488
Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 7:33 pm
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 13 times
Been thanked: 424 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Lino » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:56 pm

Rest in Peace, but she did contribute somewhat to the neoliberalist state we live in nowadays, by deregulating the financial markets, letting their betting system work better, and nowadays neoliberalism is dominant.
Plus the Falklands....
I'm a globetrotter and I'm proud of it!
 
Lino
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:02 pm
Location: Portugal!!
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby P.T » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:01 pm

"Would you like to order sir?"
"Yes. I will have a steak"
"How do you like it?"
"Raw please."
"And what about the vegetables?"
"Oh, they'll have the same as me"
 
P.T
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1011
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 5:06 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 17 times

RIP Mrs Thatch

Postby AngelR » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:41 pm

 
AngelR
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1262
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 3:50 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 60 times
Been thanked: 128 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Kes » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:20 pm

Lino wrote:Plus the Falklands....


There's no "plus" about it. The people who've lived there for x number of generations don't want to be part of Argentina, the same way that Portugal doesn't really want to be part of Spain. There's no argument about it, however close the place is to Argentina, which as it happens in distance terms is about five times the width of Portugal at it's widest point. In fact, it's about as close to Argentina, as Lisbon is to Barcelona, and as London is to Zurich.

The people speak English, and don't have anything in common with the Argentinians. The ONLY reason Argentina is bothered, is because a few hundred miles to the South is the potential for a rather large amount of mineral rights, which I might add, if it belongs to anyone, it belongs to the people who live on the islands. I don't think Argentina is thinking of extending that courtesy to the islanders, if they (Argentina) are ever given control of it.

The main reason Galtieri invaded the place in 1982 was because his country was in a shit state, and it took his people's minds off that fact. As a by-product, it also did the same in Britain, and made Thatcher extremely popular, but we didn't invade anywhere that didn't want invading.
What is left of your dream?
Just the words on your stone.
A man who learnt how to teach,
But forgot how to learn.
 
Kes
Moderator
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 15044
Images: 747
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:41 am
Location: London, England
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Lino » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:25 pm

I know the relation and that locals voted to keep being part of the UK, and that Argentina attacked first. But shouldn't a diplomatic intervention in the UN be done first?
But the dealing with NI and with the markets and privatizations and deregulation of markets was the worst. And the huge difference between classes.
I'm a globetrotter and I'm proud of it!
 
Lino
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:02 pm
Location: Portugal!!
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Kes » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:31 pm

In any radical politician, you can find fault.

Take the guy who introduced not just cheap good quality cars for the people, but the first major motorway network to drive them on. The same man pulled a country that was nosediving into economic ruin, out of it, to become possibly the most financially strong, and almost certainly militarily strong of it's day.

Unfortunately, the same bloke also set about annexing/invading anywhere where he thought he could get away with it, and then set about the biggest event in ethnic cleansing the world has ever seen, but the principle's the same, not everybody is ALL bad.

And yes, I've made a comparison between Margaret Thatcher and Adolf Hitler. I'm not the first, and I won't be the last, but I think we can safely say she wasn't quite as evil as Herr Schicklgruber was.

At the end of the day she was the first major Western leader, who didn't have a cock between their legs (plenty previously seemingly had no balls, but that's a different argument), and she showed a generation of women that they "could" become successful politicians, if they went for it.

Her political career only failed when she appeared to forget the morals of how Julius Caesar got taken out of office. The worst enemies you will ever have, are those who appear to be on your side!
What is left of your dream?
Just the words on your stone.
A man who learnt how to teach,
But forgot how to learn.
 
Kes
Moderator
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 15044
Images: 747
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:41 am
Location: London, England
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby fairydandy » Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:23 pm

I hated her at the time, but I can see now that she was needed. She had a long life and a good life and she certainly made her mark.
 
fairydandy
Somebody To Love
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 8813
Images: 0
Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:37 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 449 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Kes » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:40 pm

I can't say I was ever very impressed with those who came before her, that I remember. Harold Wilson, Edward Heath and James Callaghan. I guess you could say she came to prominence at about the same time I realised what a prime minister actually did. I can't say whether it was her that made me notice it, but I can say that the people who preceded her, and the political climate in the country, seemed to change for the better once she'd got in.

I know, retrospectively, that's no consolation for the thousands of miners who had to find something else to do, but let's face it, by today's health and safety standards, and relative prices of solid fossil fuels, there wouldn't be any profitable mines left working in the UK anyway by now, so maybe in the long term, she did them a favour.

The major thing she oversaw, that I had a problem with, was asset stripping government owned companies, like BT, which had a monopoly on telecommunications in this country, and was making a lucrative 98% profit margin on their turnover.

That WAS criminal, and selling off the gas and energy companies. Also, allowing the individual MPs in charge of the privatisation, to become honorary directors of the successful bidding companies, after they left politics. Supposedly there's a law that forbids MPs making decisions that feather their nests while in office, and this was a rule from an interpretation POV that was very borderline about what they did.

I think being a prime minister is all about darkness and light for the ones who get noticed, and the fifty shades of grey for those don't, like the egg woman shagger!

Can anybody, hand on heart tell me John Major was a better prime minister than Maggie was, or that Gordon Brown was better than Tony Blair? Both Blair and Thatcher are the two most charismatic leaders of this country in my lifetime, and arguably the best two. Different parties, but both GREAT leaders.

I might occasionally argue about Blair, but other than playing Muttley to George Bush over Gulf War 2, his term in office was pretty beneficial to the larger population of the UK.
What is left of your dream?
Just the words on your stone.
A man who learnt how to teach,
But forgot how to learn.
 
Kes
Moderator
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 15044
Images: 747
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:41 am
Location: London, England
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Tarkus » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:45 pm

Lino wrote:I know the relation and that locals voted to keep being part of the UK, and that Argentina attacked first. But shouldn't a diplomatic intervention in the UN be done first?
But the dealing with NI and with the markets and privatizations and deregulation of markets was the worst. And the huge difference between classes.


It was. She went to the UN, citing Resolution 1451 ( link ), the right to self-determination of the citizens of a colony. As the islanders wanted to remain British, we got UN backing, despite protests from the US. Reagan grudgingly respected her for going and doing that, and our alliance didn't suffer as a result, although we didn't get (And didn't really need) US assistance for that campaign.

Love her or hate her, it's thanks to her that my life has worked out the way it has- thanks to her policies, I've been able to buy my own house, and thanks to her work with Gorbachev and Reagan, many people were able to begin a new life in the west, my wife among them. Fro my money, she was the greatest peace-time prime minister this country ever had.
 
Tarkus
 
User avatar

 
 

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Lino » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:51 pm

Reagan did more for the fall of the Iron Curtain than Thatcher..... and so did the locals from the former USSR block countries too.
I'm a globetrotter and I'm proud of it!
 
Lino
The Show Must Go On
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 1528
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:02 pm
Location: Portugal!!
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 14 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby Kes » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:56 pm

Lino wrote:Reagan did more for the fall of the Iron Curtain than Thatcher..... and so did the locals from the former USSR block countries too.


I'd seriously dispute that.

Possibly one of the moments of my life was actually being on the same piece of Tarmac, at the same time, when Thatcher welcomed Mikhail and Raisa Gorbachev off their IL-62 at Brize Norton (If you can find any of the TV footage, I'm one of just four people in white overalls handling that jet!).

That and the SALT talks that took place in Iceland are two of the defining moments of the breakdown of the Cold War.
What is left of your dream?
Just the words on your stone.
A man who learnt how to teach,
But forgot how to learn.
 
Kes
Moderator
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 15044
Images: 747
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 8:41 am
Location: London, England
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 390 times

Re: Baroness Thatcher Dies

Postby pow wow » Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:19 pm

Kes wrote:
Lino wrote:Reagan did more for the fall of the Iron Curtain than Thatcher..... and so did the locals from the former USSR block countries too.


I'd seriously dispute that.

Possibly one of the moments of my life was actually being on the same piece of Tarmac, at the same time, when Thatcher welcomed Mikhail and Raisa Gorbachev off their IL-62 at Brize Norton (If you can find any of the TV footage, I'm one of just four people in white overalls handling that jet!).

That and the SALT talks that took place in Iceland are two of the defining moments of the breakdown of the Cold War.


And so the history revision begins. Reagan and much less so Thatcher helped facilitate the end to the Cold War but Gorbachev was the dominant driving force behind it solely because he knew the Soviet Union was in economic meltdown and was unable to keep up with the arms race. He had no choice but to end it.
 
pow wow
We Will Rock You
 
User avatar

 
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 9:53 pm
Location: Liverpool
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Next

Return to Views Of The World

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests