Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

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Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Simon » Sun Jun 09, 2013 9:35 pm

Based on the discussion about Apple I thought we might discuss these huge companies that affect most people in their daily lives. What is your opinion about them?
Yesterday, I read an article about what happens to your purchased digital files for your Kindle or your ipod etc when you die and who inherits it, if at all... the newspaper wrote to Amazon and Apple and they refused to answer...
Also, funny thing: If someone dies and you want to take down the Facebook account, it is possible: you 'just' have to send the birth and death certificate of the person... priceless.
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Elessar » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:31 am

Simon wrote:Also, funny thing: If someone dies and you want to take down the Facebook account, it is possible: you 'just' have to send the birth and death certificate of the person... priceless.


That's pretty standard. It's the same deal with credit cards, phone contracts, GMC registration, bank accounts, online betting accounts...if anyone you know ever dies and you're the one dealing with the paperwork, get LOTS of certified copies of the death certificate. Lots of organisations demand one to shut accounts down.
It's a good job Facebook is one of them! Imagine the 'hilarious' prank of getting your mate's account shut down by emailing in and saying they're dead. It would happen, that I absolutely guarantee.
 
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Tarkus » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:06 am

The thing with Facebook, Twitter, Google and all of those is that they are free services, so people wonder where they get their money from. Easy answer- you aren't the customer, you're the PRODUCT! That's right- every time you post about your personal foibles, likes and dislikes, your information is being sold to hundreds of companies so that they can spam your inbox with tailor-made crap.
 
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Simon » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:11 pm

Elessar wrote:
Simon wrote:Also, funny thing: If someone dies and you want to take down the Facebook account, it is possible: you 'just' have to send the birth and death certificate of the person... priceless.


That's pretty standard. It's the same deal with credit cards, phone contracts, GMC registration, bank accounts, online betting accounts...if anyone you know ever dies and you're the one dealing with the paperwork, get LOTS of certified copies of the death certificate. Lots of organisations demand one to shut accounts down.
It's a good job Facebook is one of them! Imagine the 'hilarious' prank of getting your mate's account shut down by emailing in and saying they're dead. It would happen, that I absolutely guarantee.


Funny though that no example you offer gets you into this system in 10 seconds like with Facebook: e-mail address name, and that's it. You're online. To get out: official documents. They COULD offer a sort of second password for deletion or something. It's obviously clear that they don't want to shrink their network. The more accounts they have, the more important they are.
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Innuendoes » Mon Jun 10, 2013 1:02 pm

Tarkus wrote:The thing with Facebook, Twitter, Google and all of those is that they are free services, so people wonder where they get their money from. Easy answer- you aren't the customer, you're the PRODUCT! That's right- every time you post about your personal foibles, likes and dislikes, your information is being sold to hundreds of companies so that they can spam your inbox with tailor-made crap.
If you don't have an account on there, then you won't know that the whole place is full of advertisements plus there are more shops for more items than a person could ever want and anyone having a business account has to pay for it.

ETA: I've had twitter for around 5 years and use a different unused yahoo account which is the account I used for twitter. I get no spam on that email account at all.
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Elessar » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:46 pm

Simon wrote:
Elessar wrote:
Simon wrote:Also, funny thing: If someone dies and you want to take down the Facebook account, it is possible: you 'just' have to send the birth and death certificate of the person... priceless.


That's pretty standard. It's the same deal with credit cards, phone contracts, GMC registration, bank accounts, online betting accounts...if anyone you know ever dies and you're the one dealing with the paperwork, get LOTS of certified copies of the death certificate. Lots of organisations demand one to shut accounts down.
It's a good job Facebook is one of them! Imagine the 'hilarious' prank of getting your mate's account shut down by emailing in and saying they're dead. It would happen, that I absolutely guarantee.


Funny though that no example you offer gets you into this system in 10 seconds like with Facebook: e-mail address name, and that's it. You're online. To get out: official documents. They COULD offer a sort of second password for deletion or something. It's obviously clear that they don't want to shrink their network. The more accounts they have, the more important they are.


Why a second password? Why not just give your loved ones your actual password if you're that worried about your online presence continuing post-mortem?

I wouldn't say it's laugh-out-loud funny that the examples I gave take longer than 10 seconds to get into. In fact, while you can register with facebook in under a minute (10 seconds is pushing it), it takes a good few weeks to amass sufficient personal information such that you might want it removed after you die. An online betting account, however, can have thousands of your pounds in the account within about 15 minutes, and if you die your loved ones either have to go through the whole death certificate process (and most likely provide a probate certificate as well to show they're entitled to claim the money), unless they happen to know the password in which case they can do it themselves, which is probably technically fraud. That's what I did when I was in a similar situation. Hacked in, transferred it into the deceased's bank account, and then waited for probate to come through. Good job I could decipher the coded password notebook! Hopefully no one can decipher mine...
 
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Simon » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:43 pm

Luckily enough I did not have to deal with a situation in which a friend or family member of mine active on Facebook has died. However, I can somehow fathom how awkward it could be if people still write on their "wall" or whatever Facebook calls it, maybe make innocent jokes like "if you keep on being quiet, I presume you're dead" etc.
You are not seriously suggesting that people should disclose their password (in any case, I don't want people to have access to my accounts in which I write and receive mails. They have basically taken over the function of letters and some stuff on this is private. I would feel uneasy about that. You are merely insinuating that it is not really that important if a Facebook account is still active after someone has died. In that case, I disagree. It might lead to unneccessary awkward situations. Also: Deleting your account while you are still alive might almost be more annoying than sending th certificates. Last time I checked I did not find the possibility to delete my account and gave up after five minutes.
I still don't quite agree with your comparisions. For private users, Facebook is fun, it's entertainment, it's a pastime and it's free (apart from disclosing information about yourself: you're the product, as someone has stated above), it is laughable (loud or not) that this site wants official documents to delete the account. It is a different situation with websites where money is involved or other official, serious stuff like bank accounts, insurances etc.
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Elessar » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:43 pm

Simon wrote:I still don't quite agree with your comparisions. For private users, Facebook is fun, it's entertainment, it's a pastime and it's free (apart from disclosing information about yourself: you're the product, as someone has stated above), it is laughable (loud or not) that this site wants official documents to delete the account. It is a different situation with websites where money is involved or other official, serious stuff like bank accounts, insurances etc.


Just companies on the stock market I guess,
 
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Simon » Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:33 pm

You don't make money with Facebook, you don't get insurance from Facebook, you just sign in to get into contact with friends.
Not so different if we had to send death certificates to Queen Productions so they delete the account here.
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby icy » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:43 pm

Simon wrote:Luckily enough I did not have to deal with a situation in which a friend or family member of mine active on Facebook has died. However, I can somehow fathom how awkward it could be if people still write on their "wall" or whatever Facebook calls it, maybe make innocent jokes like "if you keep on being quiet, I presume you're dead" etc.
You are not seriously suggesting that people should disclose their password (in any case, I don't want people to have access to my accounts in which I write and receive mails. They have basically taken over the function of letters and some stuff on this is private. I would feel uneasy about that. You are merely insinuating that it is not really that important if a Facebook account is still active after someone has died. In that case, I disagree. It might lead to unneccessary awkward situations. Also: Deleting your account while you are still alive might almost be more annoying than sending th certificates. Last time I checked I did not find the possibility to delete my account and gave up after five minutes.
I still don't quite agree with your comparisions. For private users, Facebook is fun, it's entertainment, it's a pastime and it's free (apart from disclosing information about yourself: you're the product, as someone has stated above), it is laughable (loud or not) that this site wants official documents to delete the account. It is a different situation with websites where money is involved or other official, serious stuff like bank accounts, insurances etc.

I've lost a dear facebook friend in recent months. Her FB is still on the go, and active, her family keeps it going, people still write on her wall, her family would like it kept as sort of a tribute.
If I knew I were dying in the near future, I'd delete my FB, other things beforehand. I gave it much thought to be honest...and I still do.
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Innuendoes » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:05 am

Simon wrote:You don't make money with Facebook, you don't get insurance from Facebook, you just sign in to get into contact with friends.
Not so different if we had to send death certificates to Queen Productions so they delete the account here.


Think again.

https://www.facebook.com/eurotrendusa?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/vjseteam?hc_location=stream

https://www.facebook.com/LittleTexicanChica?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JEWELRY ... E/?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/good.furniture.7?fref=ts
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Elessar » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:25 am

Simon wrote:Not so different if we had to send death certificates to Queen Productions so they delete the account here.


I think that would be reasonable.

Don't get me wrong, I have lots of issues with many of Facebook's practices and policies, but the death certificate thing isn't one of them.
 
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby icy » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:53 am

Innuendoes wrote:
Simon wrote:You don't make money with Facebook, you don't get insurance from Facebook, you just sign in to get into contact with friends.
Not so different if we had to send death certificates to Queen Productions so they delete the account here.


Think again.

https://www.facebook.com/eurotrendusa?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/vjseteam?hc_location=stream

https://www.facebook.com/LittleTexicanChica?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/groups/JEWELRY ... E/?fref=ts

https://www.facebook.com/good.furniture.7?fref=ts

Yep, many people sell and buy via FB. I think it's a good thing, not everyone can do Etsy, EBay etc.
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~Sleep in peace old friend for me you'll never die~
 
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Innuendoes » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:28 am

Etsy is very easy to do but unless people use Paypal as a payment method, most people don't want to buy from them.
Sometimes our tears blinded the love
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Re: Apple, Facebook, Amazon, Google... Pillars of Evil?

Postby Simon » Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:31 pm

icy wrote:
Simon wrote:Luckily enough I did not have to deal with a situation in which a friend or family member of mine active on Facebook has died. However, I can somehow fathom how awkward it could be if people still write on their "wall" or whatever Facebook calls it, maybe make innocent jokes like "if you keep on being quiet, I presume you're dead" etc.
You are not seriously suggesting that people should disclose their password (in any case, I don't want people to have access to my accounts in which I write and receive mails. They have basically taken over the function of letters and some stuff on this is private. I would feel uneasy about that. You are merely insinuating that it is not really that important if a Facebook account is still active after someone has died. In that case, I disagree. It might lead to unneccessary awkward situations. Also: Deleting your account while you are still alive might almost be more annoying than sending th certificates. Last time I checked I did not find the possibility to delete my account and gave up after five minutes.
I still don't quite agree with your comparisions. For private users, Facebook is fun, it's entertainment, it's a pastime and it's free (apart from disclosing information about yourself: you're the product, as someone has stated above), it is laughable (loud or not) that this site wants official documents to delete the account. It is a different situation with websites where money is involved or other official, serious stuff like bank accounts, insurances etc.

I've lost a dear facebook friend in recent months. Her FB is still on the go, and active, her family keeps it going, people still write on her wall, her family would like it kept as sort of a tribute.
If I knew I were dying in the near future, I'd delete my FB, other things beforehand. I gave it much thought to be honest...and I still do.


Indeed it is possible to keep a profile running as a tribute... with gray background etc. Facebook changes the setting if you ask them to do it. For THAT, they don't need a death certificate, merely a photograph from an obituary... (That's what the newspaper article said anyway.)
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