Edward Snowden

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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby funkyrake » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:42 pm

Simon wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:i think a lot of people are afraid to speak about this, myself included. scared to post on the net, scared to send private messages, scared to talk about it over the phone. the list goes on and on, i'm afraid.


I don't think that is the case for most people... They are not interested in it, always suspected something like that anyway and have the general conviction that they have nothing to hide anyway... yes, the occasional visit to Youporn to satisfy the fetish of big asses now and then, but that's no crime. Such attitutes, the lack of awareness of the heaviness of the overall situation is, to my mind, more dangerous and frightening than the actual espionage going on.


I agree. The NSA situation was created by two presidents-GW Bush and Obama. Does Obama pick up the
phone to call Bush for advice? The latest interview (in Africa where he is working on a women's health
clinic) suggests Bush is in complete agreement of the way Obama is handling Snowden. No criticism at
all fom Bush. This suggests Obama is carrying out Bush's spy program. So where is the outcry from liberals?
It took a long time for raley Manning to go mainstream. Hopefully Snowden will pick up support alot quicker.
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Tarkus » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:03 pm

Image

The interesting thing in all this to me, is that Snowden has been branded a traitor for his revelations. The US constitution defines treason as 'offering aid or comfort to the enemy.' He told the American public, so effectively, the US government regards its' own citizens as its' enemies. WTF?


From one of my posts in the 'USA' thread...

Image
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby funkyrake » Wed Jul 10, 2013 7:01 pm

Tarkus wrote:Image

The interesting thing in all this to me, is that Snowden has been branded a traitor for his revelations. The US constitution defines treason as 'offering aid or comfort to the enemy.' He told the American public, so effectively, the US government regards its' own citizens as its' enemies. WTF?


From one of my posts in the 'USA' thread...

Image


If US citizens protest militay actions or policies by crossing a military base's blue line, they are considered
"enemies of the state". Two of us acquired such a label by crossing Vandenberg AFB's blue line in 2003 to protest the Iraq war.
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Lino » Wed Jul 10, 2013 11:41 pm

As I was reading minutes ago, CIA and FBI and etc violate our privacy, then condemn and pursue those who enter their private area.
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:07 am

I disagree that no one cares because i know the people i talk to, do care, and are in disbelief of how horrible this country has become. however, there is not a lot the average citizen can do against the government. snowden is a whistle blower, not a traitor. that's completely different and it's about time someone came forth with the truth. i hope he can make a clean get-away and never be caught. what this country has been doing to other countries and what it has done to it's own citizens is beyond belief to me. now the dhs has begun with the check points, telling citizens to pull over, claim they are us citizens or not and if they refuse, they order them over to a detention area to have their vehicles searched. it appears this is near (within 60 miles of) the Mexican border but still, the videos I've seen show absolutely no Mexican people at all - white with definite american accents so why are they being harassed and whose idea is this? dhs is a federal organization. Department of homeland security. wtf!!!
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby CNB » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:44 am

If Snowden purposely applied for the job with the NSA in order to copy classified information, then he is not a whistle blower, but he is a traitor IMO. We do not know to whom he has given this information. Why in the world would he choose China and Russia as his destinations?
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Jul 11, 2013 1:50 am

CNB wrote:If Snowden purposely applied for the job with the NSA in order to copy classified information, then he is not a whistle blower, but he is a traitor IMO. We do not know to whom he has given this information. Why in the world would he choose China and Russia as his destinations?
You can't honestly say you like it that the usa is spying on the whole world in such a massive manner as it is doing and on the american people, yourself included, can you? :shock:
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby CNB » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:01 am

Innuendoes wrote:
CNB wrote:If Snowden purposely applied for the job with the NSA in order to copy classified information, then he is not a whistle blower, but he is a traitor IMO. We do not know to whom he has given this information. Why in the world would he choose China and Russia as his destinations?
You can't honestly say you like it that the usa is spying on the whole world in such a massive manner as it is doing and on the american people, yourself included, can you? :shock:


I'm not worried about it because I highly doubt that anyone is seeing right now what you and I are posting to each other in this forum. The volume of stuff that is on the Internet all over the world makes it absolutely impossible for any country to monitor everything. The thing we really need to worry about is when someone is able to cause all of our computers to come crashing down. That would literally be the end of the world as we currently know it and depend on.
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:14 am

And that can happen quite easily, or at least in this country, according to you know who. I firmly believe these sophisticated computer systems have been set to pick up any specific word, mentioning specific names, then copy that message and also monitor anything else that person has said, from the very beginning of their online presence and more.

i have a friend who cannot text specific things about a specific well known person and she is furious and very puzzled about it. Anything she tries to text, including links to articles that contain that name, are blocked from being sent. This is not some kid, this is an adult woman in her 40s.
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:37 am

BTW, it's a well known fact that AOL has saved every single instant message ever sent by every user as they have been able to pull those up for court cases when ordered to. how many can they possibly have and on what? a hell of a lot of people cheat on their spouses and i am sure that's saved in case something odd happens to one of the parties involved, especially death. whether or not they are read is another story as far as all of the messages and i doubt it but they're archived. i would imagine emails are saved as well. how many other services are there out that that have those features to instant message and or email? a hell of a lot but that data can be saved in archives and pulled for later use if necessary.
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Tarkus » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:24 am

CNB wrote:If Snowden purposely applied for the job with the NSA in order to copy classified information, then he is not a whistle blower, but he is a traitor IMO. We do not know to whom he has given this information. Why in the world would he choose China and Russia as his destinations?


He made this information public, and published it to America and the Western world. The US constitution defines a traitor as someone who offers comfort and aid to the enemy. That means the US government regards its' own citizens, as well as its' allies' citizens, as the enemy. Since 9/11, the governments of the free world (And I lump my own sad and sorry lot in with America's,) have decided that in order to make us more secure, we are all to be treated as criminals. All of the 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' crap that they give out is just smoke and mirrors to guilt trip us all into giving up our liberties in the name of 'democracy' and 'freedom'. Both of those words have increasingly lost their meaning nowadays, and have become empty, hollow words of propaganda to be used to make us toe the line. It's clear that they have plenty to hide, which means that they should be more afraid of us than we should be about them.

I predict, once the drama of Snowden and Assange have been played out and we get to see more of what they know, that the 'occupy' movement will move on from protesting against capitalism, to incorporate a protest against everything that Western 'civilization' stands for. Change does need to happen, and it's not just in the financial institutions, but in the governmental spheres that hold us all in thrall.

There, I've just got someone in the NSa to open a file on me. :shock:
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Tarkus » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:48 am

 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Innuendoes » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:10 am

Tarkus wrote:He made this information public, and published it to America and the Western world. The US constitution defines a traitor as someone who offers comfort and aid to the enemy. That means the US government regards its' own citizens, as well as its' allies' citizens, as the enemy. Since 9/11, the governments of the free world (And I lump my own sad and sorry lot in with America's,) have decided that in order to make us more secure, we are all to be treated as criminals. All of the 'if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear' crap that they give out is just smoke and mirrors to guilt trip us all into giving up our liberties in the name of 'democracy' and 'freedom'. Both of those words have increasingly lost their meaning nowadays, and have become empty, hollow words of propaganda to be used to make us toe the line. It's clear that they have plenty to hide, which means that they should be more afraid of us than we should be about them.

I predict, once the drama of Snowden and Assange have been played out and we get to see more of what they know, that the 'occupy' movement will move on from protesting against capitalism, to incorporate a protest against everything that Western 'civilization' stands for. Change does need to happen, and it's not just in the financial institutions, but in the governmental spheres that hold us all in thrall.

There, I've just got someone in the NSa to open a file on me. :shock:


That's all exactly right and like the article you posted above, yep, that's most of our feelings on this as well. the government is going to divide the people into those that agree and those that don't and those of us who don't - well, i just hope i don't live long enough to live through it. i fear for my son, though. omg, do i. :(
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby Elessar » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:02 am

I have a friend who has a job in the UK that is comparable to what Snowden's job in the US was (but probably with less access to sensitive stuff, I don't really know), and he said that when he got the job, he signed a contract agreeing to keep everything confidential, and confirming that he understood what laws he'd be breaking if he revealed anything, and what the punishment would be. It's almost certain that Snowden did the same. So while he may have excellent ideological reasons for doing what he's done, he will have known long in advance how it was going to pan out for him.
 
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Re: Edward Snowden

Postby LittleBabyNothing » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:55 pm

The EU should have sent out a stronger message to the US government.

You simply do not spy on allies and friends like this.
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