Sunday Bloody Sunday

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Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Elessar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 5:02 am

It makes me ashamed to be British (and proud of my Irish roots), although I think it's been an inconvenient but unproven truth for decades now. Delighted to see a Palestine flag in Derry when the announcement was made.

Thoughts?
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Dusty » Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:38 am

Does it mean that Bono can actually stop singing that godawful song now? :P
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Ace » Wed Jun 16, 2010 11:24 am

I totally applaud the report that came out and welcome its findings. It is essential that the truth is published and that families can now move on. The troops concerned have betrayed their colleagues, the British, the government and undertaken a huge injustice to the Irish people.

But, Having seen Martin McGuiness on the news last night giving his views I wondered whether he will also be issuing an apology to the families of those his organisation murdered and disfigured during his time in the IRA. Just as the British army committed their atrocity so to have the paramilitaries of Ireland. Many men women and children who knew nothing of the politics of Ireland where slaughtered. Many lost their lives, their limbs and their loved ones. These included children too young to even understand.

No one comes out of Irelands history with his or her honour intact. It was a shameful period for all concerned. Whereas I admire the latter course of action that McGuiness and Adams have subsequently taken and I am even willing to call them courageous, do they really think it appropriate to stand there so triumphant with so much innocent blood on their own hands.

Britain released the prisoners held who had committed atrocities and gave amnesty to others in the interest of getting a solution. It is time for the Irish people to move on. We now know who the guilty party was on the awful day. They can join the lists of the hundreds of other guilty parties over the years of unrest who are tainted but free in the interest of peace for the province.

Lets now finally move on.
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Elessar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:27 pm

The IRA have done some terrible things over the years. But, as is often the case, their members were the extremists from a group of people who were oppressed and abused. They weren't allowed to vote, couldn't get jobs, and couldn't go to watch a game of football without fearing the tanks rolling in to take a few pot shots at the crowd. Terrorism is never justified, and the victims really won't care about the motives of those responsible, but I understand someone stepping up to try to protect their people, albeit through awful means, far more than foreign soldiers coming over and shooting a few innocent people with the support of the entire British Empire behind them.

And remember, they tried peaceful protests as well. They failed. And those who died in peaceful protests are probably remembered by many as being IRA terrorists.
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Ace » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:32 pm

Elessar wrote:The IRA have done some terrible things over the years. But, as is often the case, their members were the extremists from a group of people who were oppressed and abused. They weren't allowed to vote, couldn't get jobs, and couldn't go to watch a game of football without fearing the tanks rolling in to take a few pot shots at the crowd. Terrorism is never justified, and the victims really won't care about the motives of those responsible, but I understand someone stepping up to try to protect their people, albeit through awful means, far more than foreign soldiers coming over and shooting a few innocent people with the support of the entire British Empire behind them.

And remember, they tried peaceful protests as well. They failed. And those who died in peaceful protests are probably remembered by many as being IRA terrorists.


You've totally missed my point though. I agree with everything you say. The IRA (and other paramilitary groups) blew up small children. The British have accepted their blame. Shouldn't McGuiness now do the same?
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Dusty » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:43 pm

Ace wrote:But, Having seen Martin McGuiness on the news last night giving his views I wondered whether he will also be issuing an apology to the families of those his organisation murdered and disfigured during his time in the IRA. Just as the British army committed their atrocity so to have the paramilitaries of Ireland. Many men women and children who knew nothing of the politics of Ireland where slaughtered. Many lost their lives, their limbs and their loved ones. These included children too young to even understand.


With you all the way on that, although I won't be holding my breath. That's the one thing that does stick in my craw about all this, McGuinness's smug, triumphant grin on the news. Especially when some army reports claim that he was the sniper that opened fire on the troops which started the whole incident off. He has as much blood on his hands as the troops do, if that is actually the case.
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Elessar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 12:47 pm

I didn't miss your point, I just didn't agree completely. I don't think the actions of the IRA and of the British Army are the same. To the victims the end result is the same, and if your child has been killed it makes little difference whether or not you agree with the motives of those responsible. And I agree that it is inappropriate for former IRA activists to triumphantly celebrate the report's findings without issuing an apology of their own. However, I suspect they'll see the innocent victims of the IRA as yet more victims of the British.

The similarities to the Israel-Palestine situation are unavoidable. Both sides kill innocent people, and that brings with it the temptation to say they're both as bad as each other, and should both apologise to each other and move on. But killing each other isn't all that's going on: Israel are also illegally occupying Palestinian territory. Similarly, the British were controlling and oppressing Republican Irish people for decades. The IRA won't apologise for their wrong actions until the British apologise for theirs, and to the IRA that isn't just Bloody Sunday, it's decades of occupation and discrimination as well.
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby AutumnGirlLybbie » Wed Jun 16, 2010 1:53 pm

By the tone of some of the posts here it doesn't sound like it was "resolved" to me.
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Ace » Wed Jun 16, 2010 3:04 pm

Elessar wrote:
However, I suspect they'll see the innocent victims of the IRA as yet more victims of the British.



Couldn't the British government and the British army have seen the innocent victims of Bloody Sunday as victims of the IRA? To our credit, Britian has said no, it was the army's fault. I just thought perhaps McGuinness might see fit to do the same.

I'm not really interested in "who did what". It was all diabolical and whereas I can understand the feelings of Catholic Irish people over the years, nothing justified killing small children. Equally, nothing justified British troops killing innocent republicans.

We wont get an apology from McGuiness, that was the point I was making. Its all one sided with him.

Lets move on.
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Elessar » Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:51 pm

Britain have said that Bloody Sunday was their fault, and fair play to them for saying that (although they could have said it 30 years ago and without spending £120million in the process!), but the implication is that it was an isolated incident. it would never have happened if the British Army weren't controlling the city in the first place!

I'm intrigued about the claims that McGuinness was a sniper on a roof who fired the first shot. So he was there on the roof, in plain sight, with no balaclava on, and was positively identified by British soldiers who responded by shooting people in the back? It just doesn't add up, and all seems slightly desperate.

I agree though, it's time to move on. Hopefully this report will help the country to move on, rather that re-opening old wounds.
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Elessar » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:24 am

The dramatised version of this starting James Nesbitt is on ITV again right now. It's dramatised so inevitably evokes strong feelings - it's difficult to watch Braveheart without hating the English at least for a few minutes! - but it really is horrible to imagine this actually happening. Even with a bunch of terrorists standing on building roofs with sniper rifles, which may or may not have been the case, I'm not sure it's ever okay to open fire on innocent, peaceful civilians.

Oh well, at least lessons were learnt and they do us proud nowadays...
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Elessar » Sun Feb 02, 2014 12:41 am

Why haven't any of these vile pricks been jailed for murder yet?
 
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby CNB » Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:19 pm

And in my country we have idiots equating Obama's health care plan with slavery and the holocaust in Nazi Germany. These age old rivalries seem to never die completely.
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Re: Sunday Bloody Sunday

Postby Elessar » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:43 pm

 
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