Lou Reed, death debate

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Lou Reed, death debate

Postby icy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 10:26 pm

Elessar wrote:Get ready for a decade or two of extremely famous musicians dying.

It has dawned on me, (not so suddenly) that many musicians don't die of old age.
As much as it was in retrospect it wasn't much of a shock that Whitney Houston died, but with advances in medicine it is a shock that Lou has died. I think I compare my feelings now to when Robin Gibb died, although it should not be as there are so many ups and downs in illlness/recovery etc.
Not trying to start an argument.
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Elessar » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:34 pm

icy wrote:
Elessar wrote:Get ready for a decade or two of extremely famous musicians dying.

It has dawned on me, (not so suddenly) that many musicians don't die of old age.
As much as it was in retrospect it wasn't much of a shock that Whitney Houston died, but with advances in medicine it is a shock that Lou has died. I think I compare my feelings now to when Robin Gibb died, although it should not be as there are so many ups and downs in illlness/recovery etc.
Not trying to start an argument.


I'd be surprised if the rates of musicians dying in their 60s or 70s is any greater than average - maybe even less than average due to wealth - but I'm almost certain there'll be a higher rate of unnatural deaths at very young ages. My current age is notorious for musicians of varying fame and quality (and ability to spell 'Freddie') dying.
 
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby icy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 11:45 pm

Elessar wrote:
icy wrote:
Elessar wrote:Get ready for a decade or two of extremely famous musicians dying.

It has dawned on me, (not so suddenly) that many musicians don't die of old age.
As much as it was in retrospect it wasn't much of a shock that Whitney Houston died, but with advances in medicine it is a shock that Lou has died. I think I compare my feelings now to when Robin Gibb died, although it should not be as there are so many ups and downs in illlness/recovery etc.
Not trying to start an argument.


I'd be surprised if the rates of musicians dying in their 60s or 70s is any greater than average - maybe even less than average due to wealth - but I'm almost certain there'll be a higher rate of unnatural deaths at very young ages. My current age is notorious for musicians of varying fame and quality (and ability to spell 'Freddie') dying.

But wealth doesn't always mean good health of course. For example look at some of what Elton John has been through, and for years with addiction. Thankfully he is still living, although he had a bad scare this year.
I'm trying to think of one musician who died "naturally". Drawing a blank atm :oops:
With Lou Reed and Robin Gibb though I had been reading their health was improving before they passed. I was hoping they would be living for a few years yet.
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Elessar » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:18 am

Try the two names immediately below your claim that you can't think of any.
 
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby icy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 5:47 am

Elessar wrote:Try the two names immediately below your claim that you can't think of any.

Deary me. Here was I thinking of the possibility of an even keeled discussion of this matter. My bad.
I can't think of one musician who died in recent time who did not die of illness in one way or another. I'd ask if that is more clear, but nah, whatever I say isn't good enough. The odd thing is, I don't know what I did to you in recent times to bring all this on.
I'm listening to some Lou Reed right now. A bittersweet thing for me to do after some events IRL these past few days.
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Kes » Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:50 am

Isn't illness a "natural" cause then?

Cancer is an illness. Heart disease is an illness. Having strokes is an illness. HIV is an illness. Alcoholism is an illness. Drug addiction is an illness.

Getting totalled in a car wreck isn't, getting shot isn't, drinking a bottle of bleach to commit suicide isn't, though the mental condition behind it might be.

I think it's harder to find musicians who haven't died of illnesses, than those who have.
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Kes » Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:56 pm

Being realistic, your Mick Jagger's, Paul McCartney's and Roger Daltrey's are always edging ever closer, though being fair, with all the Hendrix's, John Lennon's, Keith Moon's and Jim Morrison's they've dropped on the way, it's a wonder there's so many sixties rock legends still out there kicking and screaming.

Money isn't going to save them. Linda McCartney had millions to throw at keeping herself alive, sometimes with all the money in the world, and REALLY healthy living styles, if your number's up, it still isn't enough.

Might just as well say "F*ck it", and at least enjoy the journey.
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby icy » Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:44 pm

Kes wrote:Isn't illness a "natural" cause then?

Cancer is an illness. Heart disease is an illness. Having strokes is an illness. HIV is an illness. Alcoholism is an illness. Drug addiction is an illness.

Getting totalled in a car wreck isn't, getting shot isn't, drinking a bottle of bleach to commit suicide isn't, though the mental condition behind it might be.

I think it's harder to find musicians who haven't died of illnesses, than those who have.

I'd give my thoughts on illness being natural, but face it, I barely can say boo here these days, let alone in matters like this.
Heck I know more people will die as they age...illness/famous/rich or not. Get ready more will die as was so bluntly put. Who would have thought :sarcasm: .
The rest of your post I'm in agreement with of course, some of which I was trying to get across before. I look at people like Keith Richards, isn't it amazing/awesome that he is still around. To me it is.
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Kes » Mon Oct 28, 2013 2:11 pm

Cancer? The cells in the body replicate, that's what they do. That's how ANY of us make it past three years of age, or even younger if we want to get technical. Malfunctions in this replication are totally natural, as they cannot be described as either "unnatural" or "supernatural"

Viruses? Completely as natural, or unnatural as we are.

Mental Illness? I don't personally consider this a justifiable excuse for anyone to go on a mass murdering killing spree, but some people around here, consider that if someone comes up with it as an excuse, it exonerates the person from the crime. Natural? Who can say?

The theory of it is, that if someone dies from "unnatural" causes, it's a "legal" phrase, and the Police would look at this as though either someone intended that death, or negligently contributed towards it. There isn't really a perspective argument available, if you know what I mean?

I'm only trying to help you define a perspective, before the metaphorical hole you're digging for yourself gets too deep.
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Elessar » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:53 pm

Yup, Kes has pretty much got my point covered. You could get into a philosophical debate about whether being shot in the head is in fact natural because humans evolved to invent and then use guns; or that dying from cancer is unnatural if you happened to spend your formative years in Chernobyl, but broadly speaking physical illnesses are natural causes of death, and unnatural causes are those that involve violence or accidents.

I remember having an argument here with someone who said that domestic violence is unnatural. A quick trip to London Zoo should really be enough to put that idea to bed. (Then later, a movie too?)
 
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Elessar » Mon Oct 28, 2013 6:59 pm

Kes wrote:Cancer? The cells in the body replicate, that's what they do. That's how ANY of us make it past three years of age, or even younger if we want to get technical. Malfunctions in this replication are totally natural, as they cannot be described as either "unnatural" or "supernatural".


Of course if it wasn't for these malfunctions (let's call them mutations), we'd have never left the primordial ooze roughly 3.5 billion years ago.
 
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Simon » Mon Oct 28, 2013 7:26 pm

Elessar wrote:Yup, Kes has pretty much got my point covered. You could get into a philosophical debate about whether being shot in the head is in fact natural because humans evolved to invent and then use guns; or that dying from cancer is unnatural if you happened to spend your formative years in Chernobyl, but broadly speaking physical illnesses are natural causes of death, and unnatural causes are those that involve violence or accidents.

I remember having an argument here with someone who said that domestic violence is unnatural. A quick trip to London Zoo should really be enough to put that idea to bed. (Then later, a movie too?)


I liked the argument in "The Matrix" that human beings are like a virus destroying the planet... something to that extent. Not sure why I just wrote that... The general discussion about human beings having destructive tendencies was probably the trigger.
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Trashcat » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:20 pm

EDIT, fuck it, no point.

RIP Lou Reed. Many accounts of the man seem to point to him being an absolute cunt, but that never hurt anyone, right?
 
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Elessar » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:26 pm

In response to the pre-edit, I've never been killed by a meteor but I think it's still reasonable to have the attitude (not sure that attitude is the right word) that the cataclysmic event that killed the dinosaurs was a natural phenomenon.
 
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Re: RIP Lou Reed....

Postby Trashcat » Mon Oct 28, 2013 9:36 pm

Another 23 or so years. I can do this.
 
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