Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Thu Feb 27, 2014 6:39 pm

CNB wrote:Russian troops practicing war games on the Ukraine border is a scary thing.

Yeah Putin as been warned if he goes over the border it would be a 'grave ' mistake on his behalf.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Innuendoes » Fri Feb 28, 2014 2:39 am

Cool Cat wrote:
CNB wrote:Russian troops practicing war games on the Ukraine border is a scary thing.

Yeah Putin as been warned if he goes over the border it would be a 'grave ' mistake on his behalf.


Who all has warned him? All I know for sure is the US has. I'm not too keen on interfering there, at all !
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Tarkus » Fri Feb 28, 2014 6:44 pm

Despite what a lot of the Western press have reported, it seems that in the political offices in Kiev, right-wing extremist banners are flying alongside those of the other revolutionaries. Reading between the lines, it seems that at least some of what's being reported on Russia Today has some basis in fact- the revolution has been backed at least in part by right-wing extremist parties, something which the EU used to be firmly against, so if this IS being done at the behest of the EU, I think some serious questions need to be asked. Military troops have moved in to Crimea, with helicopters, troops and APCs, all of which are typical issue to Ukraine and Russia, but which are carrying no distinguishing markings to determine where they are from.

It looks to me like Russia is trying to protect its' own interests there, as the Black Sea Fleet are docked there at least until 2017, when they'll move their base on to Russian soil. With a strong pro-Russian contingent living there already, they've met with no resistance whatsoever, and I pray to whatever anyone holds dear that the US, UN, NATO and EU stay the hell out of this and don't escalate things. I don't want WW3, and I don't want my family to suffer thanks to Western expansionism, however shadily they try to achieve it. All I DO know is, when my M.I.L. flies back at the end of April, we won't be sure exactly WHAT she'll be flying back to- whether the country will be partitioned, or what the future will hold for her and her husband. This is one hell of an ugly mess, and the world hangs in the balance- let's hope cooler heads prevail.
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Innuendoes » Fri Feb 28, 2014 11:07 pm

We better stay the hell away from that situation, alright. But Obama has already warned Russia not to escalate or take action. I am not sure what consequences would come of that if they do but we just better not do anything! It would be sheer madness!
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Sat Mar 01, 2014 2:55 pm

Innuendoes wrote:We better stay the hell away from that situation, alright. But Obama has already warned Russia not to escalate or take action. I am not sure what consequences would come of that if they do but we just better not do anything! It would be sheer madness!

America have to get involved if Putin makes a full military intervention into Crimea, that was the deal signed in 1994 by USA, UK, France and Russia, to protect Crimea's borders, USA more than anyone can put pressure on Russia.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Sat Mar 01, 2014 3:38 pm

Putin asked the Kremlin if he could use military resources in the Crimea, he has now got the go-ahead from parliament :shock: madness
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Tarkus » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:34 pm

The prime minister of Crimea actually requested Russian intervention to protect its' citizens from extremist insurgents- there are a lot of ethnic Russians there, hence the Russian flags that were flown from government buildings as a response to the uprising in Kiev. Like it or not, I have to admire Putin's balls for the way he did it- quietly sending in troops under no banner to secure the ports and airfields, so that when the request went up- and was answered- all he'd have to do is get his troops to show their flags and send more in.

Crimea is a semi-autonomous region, similar to Calais in the middle ages when we had it, so it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if Crimea gets re-absorbed into Russia as part of a deal. All that remains is to see whether or not the other oblasts in the east want to secede- I don't want this to turn into another Kosovo.
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Sat Mar 01, 2014 6:56 pm

Tarkus wrote:The prime minister of Crimea actually requested Russian intervention to protect its' citizens from extremist insurgents- there are a lot of ethnic Russians there, hence the Russian flags that were flown from government buildings as a response to the uprising in Kiev. Like it or not, I have to admire Putin's balls for the way he did it- quietly sending in troops under no banner to secure the ports and airfields, so that when the request went up- and was answered- all he'd have to do is get his troops to show their flags and send more in.

Crimea is a semi-autonomous region, similar to Calais in the middle ages when we had it, so it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if Crimea gets re-absorbed into Russia as part of a deal. All that remains is to see whether or not the other oblasts in the east want to secede- I don't want this to turn into another Kosovo.

You admire someone who's illegally invaded another sovereign country? the Crimean PM only asked Putin for support because he's ethnic Russian and they want no part of the new Ukrainian administration.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby WhiteMouse » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:26 pm

Tarkus wrote:The prime minister of Crimea actually requested Russian intervention to protect its' citizens from extremist insurgents- there are a lot of ethnic Russians there, hence the Russian flags that were flown from government buildings as a response to the uprising in Kiev. Like it or not, I have to admire Putin's balls for the way he did it- quietly sending in troops under no banner to secure the ports and airfields, so that when the request went up- and was answered- all he'd have to do is get his troops to show their flags and send more in.

Crimea is a semi-autonomous region, similar to Calais in the middle ages when we had it, so it wouldn't be too much of a surprise if Crimea gets re-absorbed into Russia as part of a deal. All that remains is to see whether or not the other oblasts in the east want to secede- I don't want this to turn into another Kosovo.

There WERE NOT and IS NOT any extremists in Crimea. Protestants from Kiev have nothing to do with situation in Crimea at all. There are only Russian military people who act beyond their rights. Premier minister of ARC has no right to ask Russia to interfere, actually. If he has problems or suggestions, he should sort them out with Ukrainian government. All what is happening in Crimea now is created by the endless greed of Mr. Putin. He just have to stick his nose in and make a mess. That's how it was in Chechen Republic, Abkhazia, Ossetia.
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:41 pm

Did you notice how Putin kept quiet while the Olympics were happening in his country? too busy counting the billions that came with them i guess, well for all the good remarks Russia got for those games they've just thrown all the goodwill away with this intrusion.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Tarkus » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:45 pm

Cool Cat wrote:You admire someone who's illegally invaded another sovereign country? the Crimean PM only asked Putin for support because he's ethnic Russian and they want no part of the new Ukrainian administration.

Way to put words in my mouth. I didn't for one minute say that what he did was legitimate in any way, shape or form- I was just commenting on the clever way that he managed to get 6,000 troops on the ground in Crimea without a shot being fired, or any outright angry responses from the West, then managed to orchestrate a reason for being there, courtesy of the Crimean PM.

WhiteMouse wrote:There WERE NOT and IS NOT any extremists in Crimea. Protestants from Kiev have nothing to do with situation in Crimea at all. There are only Russian military people who act beyond their rights. Premier minister of ARC has no right to ask Russia to interfere, actually. If he has problems or suggestions, he should sort them out with Ukrainian government. All what is happening in Crimea now is created by the endless greed of Mr. Putin. He just have to stick his nose in and make a mess. That's how it was in Chechen Republic, Abkhazia, Ossetia.

I didn't say there were- I was only repeating what the Crimean PM said. Like it or no, there ARE extremist elements in Ukraine- maybe not in Crimea, but certainly in Kiev- the flags of Svoboda are clearly being flown alongside the Ukraine flag in the Kiev parliament buildings at the moment, and it HAS been reported that Russian-speaking Ukrainians and ethnic Russians in East Ukraine have experienced discomfort at what has happened so far. I wouldn't be surprised if Putin has used this to arrange things for his own ends. As I said, I have family out there, who are Russian-speaking from the Eastern half, and if Russia and the West come to blows over this, Ukraine could end up partitioned and Balkanised, causing untold suffering. All I want is for calmer heads to prevail, and innocent Ukrainians not to suffer any more than they already have. This is an ugly mess, and my family is caught in the middle of it.
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Tarkus » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:01 pm

Some wise words from Yulia Tymoshenko, courtesy of The Guardian:

Tymoshenko calls for restraint and diplomacy

Yulia Tymoshenko, the former prime minister who was freed one week ago, has called for Ukrainians to remain calm in the face of provocation and avoid falling into the trap that Georgia did in 2008. She said that the Ukraine must engage with the UN and EU.

"Russia has just committed another act of intimidation against Ukraine. Thus Russia wants to kill the independence of Ukraine, to get us to surrender. We are a peaceful people , we are a peaceful country but if we accept the ultimatum now from Russia - we lose our country.


I propose to act, but to keep calm and not fully react against Russian aggression and not to act according to their plans, exacerbating the situation. They want a war scenario like Abkhazia and South Ossetia in Georgia.

Ukraine must now become a gathering place for the entire democratic world.

We must make sure that when Russia will meet in Ukraine to shoot , then she should know that at this moment it will shoot the entire democratic world , which at that time will be in Ukraine.

I ask all Ukrainians to unite in this difficult time . Our main weapon is complete peace of mind . We will all work at the diplomatic level and win."
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:15 pm

I hope your family are safe, my very good friend is also in UA, right in the middle away from the flair ups thankfully. Lets just hope things can get sorted, it will take time and patience, but i for one intend to have many more visits over there.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby WhiteMouse » Sat Mar 01, 2014 8:19 pm

Tarkus wrote:I didn't say there were- I was only repeating what the Crimean PM said. Like it or no, there ARE extremist elements in Ukraine- maybe not in Crimea, but certainly in Kiev- the flags of Svoboda are clearly being flown alongside the Ukraine flag in the Kiev parliament buildings at the moment, and it HAS been reported that Russian-speaking Ukrainians and ethnic Russians in East Ukraine have experienced discomfort at what has happened so far. I wouldn't be surprised if Putin has used this to arrange things for his own ends. As I said, I have family out there, who are Russian-speaking from the Eastern half, and if Russia and the West come to blows over this, Ukraine could end up partitioned and Balkanised, causing untold suffering. All I want is for calmer heads to prevail, and innocent Ukrainians not to suffer any more than they already have. This is an ugly mess, and my family is caught in the middle of it.

I hope you are not trying to tell that Svoboda are extremists.
Ethnic Russians experience discomfort? I wonder from whom, because they very much prevail in the east. What about people who left their homes, gave their health and lives to defend their homeland? Not that I try to hurt you by my words, but let's face it- not so many eastern people joined maidan. If west and east united together, they'd get rid of Yanykovitch a lot quicker and a lot less blood would be shed, and the Russians wouldn't dare to try to invade Crimea. It's a hard time and we must only bear it, keep togetherness and peace.
I truly wish your relatives to be safe and hope this nightmare will be over soon. :)


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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:55 am

Cool Cat wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:We better stay the hell away from that situation, alright. But Obama has already warned Russia not to escalate or take action. I am not sure what consequences would come of that if they do but we just better not do anything! It would be sheer madness!

America have to get involved if Putin makes a full military intervention into Crimea, that was the deal signed in 1994 by USA, UK, France and Russia, to protect Crimea's borders, USA more than anyone can put pressure on Russia.

If it's military assistance, then the world is doomed, IMHO.
 
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