Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Mar 02, 2014 6:23 am

Innuendoes wrote:
Cool Cat wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:We better stay the hell away from that situation, alright. But Obama has already warned Russia not to escalate or take action. I am not sure what consequences would come of that if they do but we just better not do anything! It would be sheer madness!

America have to get involved if Putin makes a full military intervention into Crimea, that was the deal signed in 1994 by USA, UK, France and Russia, to protect Crimea's borders, USA more than anyone can put pressure on Russia.

If it's military assistance, then the world is doomed, IMHO.


Yep, and here's the proof, I guess...

WAR DRUMS: Forgotten treaty could drag U.S and Britain into war with Russia
http://endtimeheadlines.org/wars-n-rumo ... th-russia/
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:20 pm

[quote="Innuendoes"

Yep, and here's the proof, I guess...

WAR DRUMS: Forgotten treaty could drag U.S and Britain into war with Russia
http://endtimeheadlines.org/wars-n-rumo ... th-russia/[/quote]

This is the deal i talked about yesterday, Putin has showed absolute disregard for it, he's trying to bully his way into Ukraine, a country that is independent, the world must react to stop bully boys like him, what would Americans do if Mexico or Canada decided to deploy their military over its borders? the same as what Britain did when Argentina invaded our territory i guess. Lets just hope that threats of military action between the big powers can make for a peaceful outcome, its happened before that way.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:26 pm

I don't know, Cool Cat - seems like Putin has had his sights on overpowering the USA for at least a year, maybe longer. I read things but basically just skimmed them and was concerned but not concerned enough to explore it all. Now, this! It's very scary but I am sure it's way, way more scary for the people living there in the Ukraine. :-(
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Sun Mar 02, 2014 12:30 pm

Innuendoes wrote:I don't know, Cool Cat - seems like Putin has had his sights on overpowering the USA for at least a year, maybe longer. I read things but basically just skimmed them and was concerned but not concerned enough to explore it all. Now, this! It's very scary but I am sure it's way, way more scary for the people living there in the Ukraine. :-(

Correct way more scary, i talk to Whitemouse daily, and am just happy she's a distance from the troubles, for now anyway.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Sir Knute » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:49 pm

Any sort of battle will take place on an economic front far before any shot is fired. Severe sanctions on trade and investments would hurt Russia far more than bullets and they know this. The only way WW3 would happen is if Putin goes ape-shit crazy and mounts a full assault on Ukraine, which he won't. It wouldn't be in his or his country's best interests to do so.
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Lino » Sun Mar 02, 2014 7:52 pm

Putin sounds like one of those russian USSR nostalgics who say that USSR was the best. And there's Svoboda and the russian forces protecting Crimea and the pro-russian side. the 2 Duma chambers voted unanimously (hmmm) for the sending of troops to Ukraine... how would the ukrainian troops behave? And a ukrainian official has just declared his loialty to Crimea... a 2nd Crimean war?
What would be the effect of NATO or Turkey closing the Bosphorus chanel to russian navy?
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Mar 02, 2014 10:52 pm

Sir Knute wrote:Any sort of battle will take place on an economic front far before any shot is fired. Severe sanctions on trade and investments would hurt Russia far more than bullets and they know this. The only way WW3 would happen is if Putin goes ape-shit crazy and mounts a full assault on Ukraine, which he won't. It wouldn't be in his or his country's best interests to do so.


Well, what do you make of this? It's sounding worse and worse to me.

Hundreds of gunmen surround Ukraine military base

<snip>U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry called Russia's military incursion into Ukraine "an incredible act of aggression" - comments that came a day after Russian forces took over the strategic Black Sea peninsula of Crimea from Ukraine without firing a shot.<snip>

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/03/02/h ... d%3D449485
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Lino » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:17 am

thing is... many gas and oil pipes pass through Ukraine on their way to Europe... it's a risk board for east and west....
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Sir Knute » Mon Mar 03, 2014 4:13 am

Innuendoes wrote:
Sir Knute wrote:Any sort of battle will take place on an economic front far before any shot is fired. Severe sanctions on trade and investments would hurt Russia far more than bullets and they know this. The only way WW3 would happen is if Putin goes ape-shit crazy and mounts a full assault on Ukraine, which he won't. It wouldn't be in his or his country's best interests to do so.


Well, what do you make of this? It's sounding worse and worse to me.

Hundreds of gunmen surround Ukraine military base

<snip>U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry called Russia's military incursion into Ukraine "an incredible act of aggression" - comments that came a day after Russian forces took over the strategic Black Sea peninsula of Crimea from Ukraine without firing a shot.<snip>

http://www.aol.com/article/2014/03/02/h ... d%3D449485


Well at the point,(and it's tenuous situation I admit.) Putin can still claim he is protecting Russian interests on Crimea. This is just political maneuvering. He's setting up a situation to where he stands to gain in a negotiated compromise. I don't think he intends to storm into the country with his full standing army and set off a world-wide conflict. Do you? I think Putin has been in power long enough to have a finely tuned sense of self-preservation.
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Innuendoes » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:11 am

Sir Knute wrote:Well at the point,(and it's tenuous situation I admit.) Putin can still claim he is protecting Russian interests on Crimea. This is just political maneuvering. He's setting up a situation to where he stands to gain in a negotiated compromise. I don't think he intends to storm into the country with his full standing army and set off a world-wide conflict. Do you? I think Putin has been in power long enough to have a finely tuned sense of self-preservation.


I don't know what to think at this point. I guess we'll have to wait and see.


More snip -

Mr Kerry had previously accused Russia of an "incredible act of aggression", saying: "You just don't in the 21st century behave in 19th century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped-up pretext."

He spoke of "very serious repercussions" for Moscow and said G8 nations and some other countries are "prepared to go to the hilt to isolate Russia" with an array of options available.

He listed visa bans, asset freezes, trade isolation, and investment changes as possible steps, although analysts said US economic sanctions would have little impact unless EU countries - with which Russia has deeper trade ties - followed suit.

It came after Mr Putin secured permission from his parliament on Saturday to use military force to protect Russian citizens in Ukraine and told Mr Obama he had the right to defend Russian interests and nationals, spurning Western pleas not to intervene.


http://news.sky.com/story/1219922/ukrai ... ver-crimea
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:05 pm

The crisis has hit Russian stock markets, with Moscow's main MICEX index dropping 9% in early trading. The rouble fell to a fresh all-time low against the US dollar and Russia's central bank raised its key lending rate to 7% from 5.5%, and the Russian central bank has sold up to $10bn (£6bn) of foreign currency reserves in order to support the plunging rouble.

This along with assets being frozen is the thing that will hit Russia's big buisness men, and they won't like world trade links being severed, all these options are being considered to maintain a peaceful outcome.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby CNB » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:13 pm

I didn't know that Russia supplies oil and gas to Europe through pipelines running through Ukraine. Doesn't that give Putin leverage in the situation? It seems that all of the world's wars ultimately are waged over oil.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Tarkus » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:28 pm

They do- if our sanctions bite too hard, our lights will go out! Putin doesn't care about share prices in Gazprom dropping, because he knows they still supply a product we're desperate to get our hands on. Knute is right, this will be diplomatic wrangling before shots are fired, I think. My mum-in-law, presently staying with us, is Skyping her sister in Dnipopetrovsk (eastern Ukraine), and she reports that Russian aircraft are freely flying over Ukraine airspace, being chased or shadowed by Ukrainian aircraft. It's a bit to the north of Crimea, so this may be Russian frontal aviation units effecting a No Fly Zone over Crimea. This hasn't reached the news networks as yet...
 
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby CNB » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:35 pm

My father-in-law came to America from Ukraine many years ago but I don't know which specific area. He is deceased so I can't ask him. He left a couple of brothers behind who I don't think he ever saw again.
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Re: Pray for Ukraine! And the people's freedom!

Postby Cool Cat » Mon Mar 03, 2014 5:38 pm

Well the Ukrainian forces in Crimea are standing strong, but now Russian forces are reported to have given them a ultimatum, surrender by 5am (3am GMT) or face a storm :shock: This is when it'll start to get bloody by the sounds of it :?
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