Should All Schools Be Secular?

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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby fairydandy » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:45 am

Innuendoes wrote:I had ONE hour of religious studies per day and the rest was general studies, just like everyone else.


A hour a day! That is simply unbelievable! How can any parent let it happen to their children? Schools are for teaching facts, not this garbage.

I remember to this day standing at assembly, reciting the Lord's Prayer every morning as a four or five year old...and I didn't have a clue what the words meant. I also remember saying 'grace' before we used to eat our dinner. I find it hard to believe that I was being taught at a school to say 'thank you' for the food I was about to eat, as if some magical old man in the sky had provided it! That's bloody child abuse in my book.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby Elessar » Thu Jun 19, 2014 2:01 pm

Innuendoes wrote:I went to Catholic school but not in another country so I really have NO CLUE what others are taught, etc, in religious schools.


Probably the worst kind of religious education. As Kes said, in today's world there's a role for understanding the major world religions, as they're important in almost every facet of society. Learning about one religion and having no idea what happens in other countries is what breeds fundamentalism. Getting a cross-sectional insight into religion across the world might hopefully combat it.

Incidentally it is a known fact that the greater someone's overall knowledge all different religions is, the less religious they tend (standard caveats about not meaning 'everyone') to be.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby 1By1 » Thu Jun 19, 2014 3:59 pm


Probably the worst kind of religious education. As Kes said, in today's world there's a role for understanding the major world religions, as they're important in almost every facet of society. Learning about one religion and having no idea what happens in other countries is what breeds fundamentalism. Getting a cross-sectional insight into religion across the world might hopefully combat it.

Incidentally it is a known fact that the greater someone's overall knowledge all different religions is, the less religious they tend (standard caveats about not meaning 'everyone') to be.


I agree. All secondary schools should offer a class in world religions studies, not necessarily as a requirement for graduation, but to fulfill an academic area for graduation. This is entirely different than catholic schools or protestent christian schools or muslim schools or...
It does not necessarily follow that religious schools rob students of basic and necessary disiplines. Part of my public school education was in the midwest in a very small school sorely lacking science classes. Catholic schools have good science courses with generous funding for laboratories, even at the time I attended secondary school which was a million years ago. It boils down to funding.
But to answer the question, yes.
To me the more interesting debate currently in America is should charter schools receive public and private funding, and how are they different from conventional public schools. Another interesting area of concern is the recent decision to end tenure for public school teachers. Education is key to a civilized society. Getting it right is important. :ugeek:
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:04 pm

fairydandy wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:Personally, I believe they should; I feel there is no place for religion (in any context) in a place of education.


I feel there is no place for religion anywhere, not just in schools. Schools should be a place where they teach facts, not fairy tales.

Religion is the cause of more misery on this planet than anything else. Anyone who believes in it in this day and age really needs sectioning for being insane.


I understand where you are coming from. But I believe if adults want to believe in such things, let them do so (no skin off my nose), but children...no, that is a different matter altogether. And, yes, schools should teach facts, not fiction.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:06 pm

icy wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:Personally, I believe they should; I feel there is no place for religion (in any context) in a place of education.

I'd rather people choose for themselves. That said I used to be quite religious at one time, and couldn't imagine my school days without it. This also said, I hope the kids I know in my life will never go through what I did in some of my school years. Strapping because "Jesus would have wanted you to learn right from wrong like this" I was told. F**k shit like that :evil:


I'd rather people chose for themselves too (I am all for free choice), but as long as they are adults. Currently, children have no choice, and that is wrong - they are being told that god exists, etc. and there is no proof; a place of education should inform with facts.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:09 pm

Innuendoes wrote:shouldn't this be in the bashing religion section?


Yes, but only if it was bashing religion - which it is not. I haven't made any nasty remarks about religion here, just that I feel children should not be fed stuff that is fiction and be told it is fact - because that is not educational.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:17 pm

Kes wrote:In the last two thousand years, we've had significant events like the Nazis putting 11 million people through the showers, let me just say that compared to how many people differences of opinion on religion has put in the deck, that 11 million is a drop in the ocean.

Religious differences might easily be the major excuse for the next world war.

I personally think religion is complete bollocks, like most others here seem to, but I also see a certain need for people to have at least a bit of an awareness where fundamentalists, and extremists get this overwhelming belief from, especially if they wind up affecting your lives with it. I guess the argument is in how it is taught, and to what level.


Well said. Although I believe that religion should not be taught at schools as fact in any sense whatsoever. Teachers could discuss fundamentalists/extremists, etc. with children and explain the religious fanatic's warped views based on their religious views; but as long as this was to inform children about our current climate with regards to fanaticism, etc. and not to try to push the fiction of religion into their minds.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:18 pm

Innuendoes wrote:And fuck shit like this thread! :mad:


Hmmm...that sounds very open-minded of you.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:20 pm

Innuendoes wrote:I went to Catholic school but not in another country so I really have NO CLUE what others are taught, etc, in religious schools. I had ONE hour of religious studies per day and the rest was general studies, just like everyone else.

I was taught stuff in those religious classes that I would never have found out any other way. I can't even google for the information, but I know it's true because I have seen these things we were taught happening in this world, right now.

My end of rant in here!


Why can you not google the information? Or why can't you not read the various fictional literature?

What exactly have you seen in the world right now with regards to the fictional stuff you were told in school?
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:25 pm

1By1 wrote:
I agree. All secondary schools should offer a class in world religions studies, not necessarily as a requirement for graduation, but to fulfill an academic area for graduation. This is entirely different than catholic schools or protestent christian schools or muslim schools or...
It does not necessarily follow that religious schools rob students of basic and necessary disiplines. Part of my public school education was in the midwest in a very small school sorely lacking science classes. Catholic schools have good science courses with generous funding for laboratories, even at the time I attended secondary school which was a million years ago. It boils down to funding.
But to answer the question, yes.
To me the more interesting debate currently in America is should charter schools receive public and private funding, and how are they different from conventional public schools. Another interesting area of concern is the recent decision to end tenure for public school teachers. Education is key to a civilized society. Getting it right is important. :ugeek:


What concerns me about some of these religious studies though is that they teach children that god made the earth and evolution is wrong. Come on, how is that helping to educate a child in any sense? They are filling kid's heads with utter bullshit about how we - as human beings - came to be; that is unforgivable and highly irresponsible in an educational setting.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby icy » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:37 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
icy wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:Personally, I believe they should; I feel there is no place for religion (in any context) in a place of education.

I'd rather people choose for themselves. That said I used to be quite religious at one time, and couldn't imagine my school days without it. This also said, I hope the kids I know in my life will never go through what I did in some of my school years. Strapping because "Jesus would have wanted you to learn right from wrong like this" I was told. F**k shit like that :evil:


I'd rather people chose for themselves too (I am all for free choice), but as long as they are adults. Currently, children have no choice, and that is wrong - they are being told that god exists, etc. and there is no proof; a place of education should inform with facts.

The 2 young kids in my life will make up their own minds about their schooling. They are free to change their minds. At least here, there are choices, and better ones for schooling than the East Coast where much schooling is based on religion.
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 5:51 pm

Innuendoes wrote:And fuck shit like this thread! :mad:


Hmmm...that sounds very open-minded and tolerant of you.
Last edited by musicalprostitute on Mon Jul 28, 2014 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby Elessar » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:08 pm

musicalprostitute - you're halfway there, now you should go the full John Lennon.
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby musicalprostitute » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:21 pm

Elessar wrote:musicalprostitute - you're halfway there, now you should go the full John Lennon.


Well, I speak as I am spoken to. 'Fuck this thread' - where did that come from? Why not just debate?

I will probably go further than the 'full John Lennon' (I love him!).
 
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Re: Should All Schools Be Secular?

Postby Elessar » Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:26 pm

musicalprostitute wrote:
Elessar wrote:musicalprostitute - you're halfway there, now you should go the full John Lennon.


Well, I speak as I am spoken to. 'Fuck this thread' - where did that come from? Why not just debate?

I will probably go further than the 'full John Lennon' (I love him!).


The reference was to no religion/no countries.
 
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