What comes after this life ?

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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:12 pm

you should watch this video before engaging further in the discussion. it's mandatory knowledge

phpBB [video]


I've made a timestamp to jump to the relevant part in the video, for your convenience. courtesy of "action theories.org"
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:16 pm

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:
action wrote:brain cells, their atoms are subject to change too. but here comes the kicker: information is NOT lost in the same way as it does in computer chips. Why is this? what is the difference between a computer chip and a brain? well it's easy: a computer chip is purely material, while a brain also contains a "soul" somewhere, and this soul can also store information and interact with brain cells. it's, to me, the only explanation for information preservation in the human brain.


I take it you’re not familiar with dementia?


dementia harms the physical part, but not the immaterial part.

both parts are "needed" to function in our physical realm, but not in the afterlife


Evidence for this please?
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:17 pm

action wrote:you should watch this video before engaging further in the discussion. it's mandatory knowledge


I’m not going to engage with that kind of tone.

Thanks for occasional moments of genuinely stimulating conversation though.

Until next time.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 5:45 pm

action wrote:you should watch this video before engaging further in the discussion. it's mandatory knowledge

phpBB [video]


I've made a timestamp to jump to the relevant part in the video, for your convenience. courtesy of "action theories.org"


Okay, so you’ve found a guy who reckons he’s found some code in nature. That’s cool. And he also believes in god, so that’s nice for him too.

Here’s someone else who also found a code in nature. He was a staunch atheist. He also believed that consciousness is an emergent phenomenon.

Image

Finding what looks like computer code underlying the fabric of the universe changes nothing. In fact, I’d go as far as to say that if it DIDN’T all boil down to what looks like a computer code, that would be pretty surprising. None of this has any implications whatsoever for the existence of a soul or an afterlife.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Mon Feb 04, 2019 7:15 pm

I think you've not seen my previous post, so I'll post it again:

brain cells and computer chips are built with the same materials: atoms.

information is "stored" in both.

ok, that's simple. but now comes the curious part.

computer chips are subject to atom change, just as brain cells.

you'd expect information to get lost over time. information in computer cells in stored in chips, in a physical way. but ultimately, those chips are made of atoms. atoms degrade and change over time. And what do we see? that information gets lost over time in computer chips. this is known as "bit rot", "disc rot" and other kinds of rot.

brain cells, their atoms are subject to change too. but here comes the kicker: information is NOT lost in the same way as it does in computer chips. Why is this? what is the difference between a computer chip and a brain? well it's easy: a computer chip is purely material, while a brain also contains a "soul" somewhere, and this soul can also store information and interact with brain cells. it's, to me, the only explanation for information preservation in the human brain.
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:11 pm

Elessar wrote:Evidence for this please?


there is no evidence, nor a source. if there was, we wouldn't be having this discussion!

my position is clear: ancient philosophers have failed, scientists have failed. so we've got nothing to begin with, so there is no source or evidence. all that is left, is our own intelligence.

intelligence is not, I repeat, "knowing a lot". it's using the information you have, any information, and come up with your own theories. that's what I'm doing here.
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:30 pm

this sums up my stance pretty clear

phpBB [video]
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:58 pm

action wrote:I think you've not seen my previous post, so I'll post it again:

brain cells and computer chips are built with the same materials: atoms.

information is "stored" in both.

ok, that's simple. but now comes the curious part.

computer chips are subject to atom change, just as brain cells.

you'd expect information to get lost over time. information in computer cells in stored in chips, in a physical way. but ultimately, those chips are made of atoms. atoms degrade and change over time. And what do we see? that information gets lost over time in computer chips. this is known as "bit rot", "disc rot" and other kinds of rot.

brain cells, their atoms are subject to change too. but here comes the kicker: information is NOT lost in the same way as it does in computer chips. Why is this? what is the difference between a computer chip and a brain? well it's easy: a computer chip is purely material, while a brain also contains a "soul" somewhere, and this soul can also store information and interact with brain cells. it's, to me, the only explanation for information preservation in the human brain.


I take it you haven’t heard of dementia?
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:00 pm

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:I think you've not seen my previous post, so I'll post it again:

brain cells and computer chips are built with the same materials: atoms.

information is "stored" in both.

ok, that's simple. but now comes the curious part.

computer chips are subject to atom change, just as brain cells.

you'd expect information to get lost over time. information in computer cells in stored in chips, in a physical way. but ultimately, those chips are made of atoms. atoms degrade and change over time. And what do we see? that information gets lost over time in computer chips. this is known as "bit rot", "disc rot" and other kinds of rot.

brain cells, their atoms are subject to change too. but here comes the kicker: information is NOT lost in the same way as it does in computer chips. Why is this? what is the difference between a computer chip and a brain? well it's easy: a computer chip is purely material, while a brain also contains a "soul" somewhere, and this soul can also store information and interact with brain cells. it's, to me, the only explanation for information preservation in the human brain.


I take it you haven’t heard of dementia?


yeah, i think i might be starting to suffer from it since you aleady answered my post after all.

if only I had a quantum eraser to make my mistake undone :(
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:01 pm

action wrote:this sums up my stance pretty clear

phpBB [video]


Yes, I’m familiar with the simulation theory. I don’t know why you think repeating it again and again proves anything.

The simulation theory is just a reimagining of Descartes pondering his own existence in 1637. You may think of such philosophers as failures, but they got to grips with something you seem unable to get your head round hundreds of years ago, and did so without needing to get upset by computer coding.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:06 pm

action wrote:intelligence is not, I repeat, "knowing a lot". it's using the information you have, any information, and come up with your own theories. that's what I'm doing here.


It’s also not finding some videos on YouTube that support an outlandish theory and saying “how do you like THEM apples?!”

Even if you could prove with absolute certainty that we live in a computer simulation, it would add absolutely nothing to the discussion we’re having about i) whether or not we have a soul; ii) what comes after this life?

Just to be clear: I find the simulation theory fascinating. I regularly bore people to death talking about it. But in this discussion, I don’t think it adds anything whatsoever. It’s a recursive argument. Above the simulation there could still either be a world with a god/afterlife or a world without.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Mon Feb 04, 2019 9:11 pm

Elessar wrote:
action wrote:intelligence is not, I repeat, "knowing a lot". it's using the information you have, any information, and come up with your own theories. that's what I'm doing here.


It’s also not finding some videos on YouTube that support an outlandish theory and saying “how do you like THEM apples?!”

Even if you could prove with absolute certainty that we live in a computer simulation, it would add absolutely nothing to the discussion we’re having about i) whether or not we have a soul; ii) what comes after this life?


most of my knowledge comes from books, news articles and youtube videos. nothing wrong with that?

i meant: it doesn't make you an intelligent person, just accumulating that knowledge. real intelligence, is using that knowledge and making up new theories.

if I could prove we're in a computer simulation, we can then build on this knowledge and go from there. I've already argued about that in previous posts.

take it one step at a time.

a theory is only outlandish when it's proven to be false. until then, its a possibility
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Mon Feb 04, 2019 10:30 pm

But it still doesn’t matter. If we live in a simulation, it’s either a divine simulation and an afterlife awaits depending on our performance; or it’s some high school kid’s evening entertainment, and once he turns it off it’s over forever. Or some other version somewhere in between.
 
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby action » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:38 am

Elessar wrote:But it still doesn’t matter. If we live in a simulation, it’s either a divine simulation and an afterlife awaits depending on our performance; or it’s some high school kid’s evening entertainment, and once he turns it off it’s over forever. Or some other version somewhere in between.


exactly. I'm already this far.

what I'm doing now, is pondering which one of the two it is...

as a start, I'm studying this channel:

phpBB [video]


as always, it's not necessary to understand everything. the trick is to absord as much information as you need, to make your own theories.
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Re: What comes after this life ?

Postby Elessar » Tue Feb 05, 2019 8:15 am

Okay, so actually when you brought up the simulation theory in response to my post about the phenomenal vs noumenal world, you actually just wanted to go off on an irrelevant tangent?

That’s fine, it would just have helped a bit if you’d signposted it more clearly, because I’ve spent this whole time trying to work out where your point about the afterlife is.
 
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