I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:35 pm

Kes wrote:The inherent problem you have in the US, is "access", in that anyone who wants a gun, can just go and buy one. It shouldn't be anything like THAT easy.


Don't forget the gang shoot-outs every night in every large city. I guarantee you 95% of those guns were stolen or bought on the black market, not in gun stores or auctions or in any way, legally and with a background check.

Otherwise, I completely agree with your last sentence.

But then we still have a problem with nutcases because a security guard, here, went to the mall and shot down another employee of the mall. I still don't know what his reason for killing her was but he was obviously mentally unbalanced. She was his only target and he fired multiple shots on purpose, only at her. That's about the same thing as a police officer shooting someone for the hell of it or because he was pissed off at the person. He is in custody and I don't know when his trial is.

http://www.kcrg.com/subject/news/coral- ... s-20150615
 
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Kes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:50 pm

I think the ease of which you can get a gun on the black market, and how much it costs, is probably proportionately representative of how easy they are to get legally.

I also think you have to ask yourself, proportionately, what percentage of these school/cinema/shopping mall style rack 'em up turkey shoots, are carried out with illegally obtained firearms.

So, I think what we are dealing with here are two different problems. Criminals using firearms to give them a bit of Dutch courage, and help them to achieve their criminal intentions, and otherwise normal people throwing a wobbly, and using either their own legally obtained firearms, or those of another family member, to go out and mow down other normal people.

The second one is directly related to people owning firearms "for self defence", or "sporting pleasure". So, that's where a lot of people's viewpoint so far, have been coming from.
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:52 pm

Kes wrote:I think the ease of which you can get a gun on the black market, and how much it costs, is probably proportionately representative of how easy they are to get legally.

I also think you have to ask yourself, proportionately, what percentage of these school/cinema/shopping mall style rack 'em up turkey shoots, are carried out with illegally obtained firearms.

So, I think what we are dealing with here are two different problems. Criminals using firearms to give them a bit of Dutch courage, and help them to achieve their criminal intentions, and otherwise normal people throwing a wobbly, and using either their own legally obtained firearms, or those of another family member, to go out and mow down other normal people.

Yes, they are 2 different types of problems.

Here are some charts related to gang shootings. Don't forget, people make their own guns out of plumbing supplies and bits of tools, etc, as well. Stopping the sale of guns is not going to stop guns.

National Youth Gang Survey Analysis
https://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/surv ... g-problems
 
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Kes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 2:58 pm

OK. How many massacres in schools, shops, theatres, etc in the last ten years have been carried out with a homemade length of steel tube?

You AREN'T going to address the people's mental states aspect of this, in a country where violent movies and TV shows are the norm.

The ONLY way you will ever make inroads into this problem, and it's going to take fucking decades to achieve it, is a) cutting down on the number of firearms, and b) cutting down on the number of people who are allowed to own them.

Problem is, one of your founding laws, says that you have the right to bear arms, and you aren't getting anywhere until THAT gets changed.
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Kes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:04 pm

And yes, I know people can make bombs out of stuff from hardware stores.

But the fact is, not many seem to want to. Maybe it's more effort than picking up an assault rifle, or maybe they might blow themselves up building it.
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Kes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:11 pm

So, I hear you ask, how do British psychopaths carry out mass murder?

Well, not having free access to a range of high velocity assault rifles, we DID have a bit of a problem with knife crime, but this caused the government to pass laws against the carrying of blades over about an inch and a half, and their ability to lock out.

So far, those people who were affected by this, haven't taken to driving their cars into bus queues.

It's STILL illegal to kill someone who's entered your house, invited or uninvited, and the plea of self defence has to be backed up with evidence that you used the minimum amount of force necessary to defend yourself. Concise wording for a not so concise set of circumstances.
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:17 pm

Kes wrote:OK. How many massacres in schools, shops, theatres, etc in the last ten years have been carried out with a homemade length of steel tube?

You AREN'T going to address the people's mental states aspect of this, in a country where violent movies and TV shows are the norm.

The ONLY way you will ever make inroads into this problem, and it's going to take fucking decades to achieve it, is a) cutting down on the number of firearms, and b) cutting down on the number of people who are allowed to own them.

Problem is, one of your founding laws, says that you have the right to bear arms, and you aren't getting anywhere until THAT gets changed.


People DO make guns and rifles from items bought in hardware stores, Walmart, Kmart and any other store that sells building materials.

If the guns are banned as far as sales, people will turn to making them by hand if they want them. Where there is a will, there is a way.

I can guarantee you the police, off duty police, security guards, etc, are not going out there without guns. There are over 250,000 legally registered guns in this country, last statistics I looked at. I can't even imagine how many more are illegal. The ones that own them are not giving them over to the police or the military and it would take an all out martial law and then some to get them away from the entire country. There isn't anywhere enough military to do that. No way. And if Martial Law did break out, you can bet those gun owners would be firing back. And in many cases, the military people would turn the other way and refuse their orders. I've already seen them say so on Jade Helm forms.
 
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 3:35 pm

phpBB [video]


This is not the same video I saw, before. That one is deleted, apparently. But these are the same Marines. And they tell it the way the guys think, feel and will do.
 
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Tarkus » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:02 pm

Daily Mash article

also...

Here are all the college campus shootings this year - not including shooting in self defense where a firearm was discharged.

Feb. 2, 2015
Minnesota State University, Mankato, Minn.
0 injured, 0 killed, shooter committed suicide

Feb. 5, 2015
University of South Carolina, Columbia, S.C.
1 killed, shooter committed suicide

Feb. 15, 2015
University of Georgia, Athens, Ga.
0 injured, 0 killed

Feb. 23, 2015
Bethune-Cookman University, Daytona Beach, Fla.
3 injured, 0 killed

March 30, 2015
American International College, Springfield, Mass.
0 injured, 0 killed

April 2, 2015
Community College of Beaver County, Beaver Falls, Pa.
1 injured (man accidentally shot himself)

April 2, 2015
Lane College, Jackson, Tenn.
1 injured

April 4, 2015
Everett Community College, Everett, Wash.
0 injured, 0 killed

April 13, 2015
Wayne Community College, Goldsboro, N.C.
1 killed

April 19, 2015
Johnson C. Smith University, Charlotte, N.C.
1 injured

July 27, 2015
University of Florida-Gainesville, Gainesville, Fla.
0 injured, 0 killed

Aug. 8, 2015
Wichita State University, Wichita, Kan.
1 killed

Aug. 27, 2015
Savannah State University, Savannah, Ga.
1 killed

Sept. 3, 2015
Sacramento City College, Sacramento, Calif.
1 killed, 2 injured

Sept. 14, 2015
Delta State University, Cleveland, Miss.
1 killed

Sept. 28, 2015
Montana Tech of the University of Montana, Butte, Mont.
0 injured, 0 killed

Oct. 1, 2015
Umpqua Community College, Roseburg, Ore.
9 dead, at least 20 injured

Including shots made in self-defence, the pace is about 1 a week during the school year. A horrible stat. :shock:
 
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Elessar » Sat Oct 03, 2015 4:43 pm

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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Kes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 7:52 pm

How about a simple law change to start off with.

You ARE allowed to own "normal" firearms, normal meaning handguns, and subsonic rifles. 12-gauge shotguns, or anything that can't be classed as a high velocity automatic or bolt action rifle. The loss in your ability to blow a deer or a bear apart from half a mile, is more than compensated by the number of kids who make it safely too and from school, the cinema, or the shopping mall.

You aren't allowed to be in possession of a firearm, outside of your own home, unless you are on your way, directly to or from, a booked set time appointment at your local firing range, or on your way to or from a registered contest.

Failure to comply, means if caught, you lose the weapon, and MAY be subject to prosecution.

The ONLY people allowed to carry firearms on their person, in the street, are Police or members of the armed forces, and even then, ONLY when they are on duty.

How's that sound?
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Kes » Sat Oct 03, 2015 8:11 pm

A couple of years ago I was on holiday in Florida.

They had a CRAZY news story while I was there.

The Police had followed a suspected drug dealer to a small group of houses, and thought the guy had entered a specific one of these houses. They broke down the door of this house, and entered shouting non descript stuff.

The guy who lived there thought he was being attacked by... Well, he didn't know who, so picked up his gun, and proceeded to get shot half a dozen times, about twice as much as was necessary to kill him.

So the guy has the right to legally bear arms. He has the right to legally defend his own property with lethal force. He has the unfortunate right to get six extra holes drilled into his body.

What the fuck's wrong with this picture?
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Elessar » Sun Oct 04, 2015 1:42 am

Kes wrote:A couple of years ago I was on holiday in Florida.

They had a CRAZY news story while I was there.

The Police had followed a suspected drug dealer to a small group of houses, and thought the guy had entered a specific one of these houses. They broke down the door of this house, and entered shouting non descript stuff.

The guy who lived there thought he was being attacked by... Well, he didn't know who, so picked up his gun, and proceeded to get shot half a dozen times, about twice as much as was necessary to kill him.

So the guy has the right to legally bear arms. He has the right to legally defend his own property with lethal force. He has the unfortunate right to get six extra holes drilled into his body.

What the fuck's wrong with this picture?


Well speaking of Florida, there was of course that charming man who successfully got away with shooting an unarmed black teenager dead, on the basis that he thought the boy had a gun and therefore feared for his life. Craziness.
 
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Oct 04, 2015 2:16 am

Get it straight. It's pronounced Floor ee duh.
 
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Re: I am tired of my country's obsession with guns

Postby Innuendoes » Sun Oct 04, 2015 4:04 am

Australia, the gun free country Obama was talking about? A civilian police employee has been “callously murdered” and his killer shot dead as officers returned fire outside police headquarters at Parramatta in Sydney’s West.

Spoiler! :
Oh wait. Australia never has any gun problems.


http://pamelageller.com/2015/10/middle- ... alia.html/
 
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