The EU Referendum

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Should we leave the EU?

Poll ended at Tue Oct 20, 2015 5:12 pm

Yes
9
50%
No
9
50%
 
Total votes : 18

Re: The EU Referendum

Postby JLP » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:32 am

Elessar wrote:
JLP wrote:
Elessar wrote:Even the most hardline Brexiter must surely agree that this has been handled appallingly right from the very start.


Looking at the news this morning, most opposition parties want a commitment to a no deal Brexit but I can see that happening due to May refusing to move her red lines.


No one with the intelligence necessary to navigate one's way to the Houses of Parliament wants a no-deal Brexit, not even the likes of Rees-Mogg, Johnson or even Farage. They surely won't let it come to that.


You would hope not. I think Corbyn should have accepted the invitation and then put his demands to May in private like it seems the SNP has done. Some senior Tories are telling businesses that a no real scenario will be off the table within days.

Be that the case, you would imagine Article 50 being delayed. But who knows in the current madness?
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby JLP » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:35 am

Spook2 wrote:
Elessar wrote:Even the most hardline Brexiter must surely agree that this has been handled appallingly right from the very start.



It has, but when the EU is determined to make it difficult to leave with a good deal to stop others it is always going to be hard

two things I cannot understand

backstop / physical border
said its required to check goods from ROI / EU entering NI / UK. But in dover, Southampton, Liverpool, etc do we have hundreds of people in yellow jackets checking, going through item by item every container that arrives from China, India, etc. NO. so why is a physical border required in Ireland

NOW
PM says she will talk with everyone / main party leaders and staunch remainers and Brexiters. Yet JC wont talk to her until certain items are agreed, eg - No deal is not an option. WHY impose these requirements. He freely talked to the IRA whilst they were killing UK citizens, he freely talked to Hamas, etc, etc, with NO prior requirements. double standards. He just wants chaos and nothing more.
As a business owner I am truly scared of that man getting in nr 10. economic disaster will follow.


As a business owner, how would no deal affect your business? Many business owners are very worried about no deal.
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby WeeMann » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:40 am

Spook2 wrote:two things I cannot understand

backstop / physical border
said its required to check goods from ROI / EU entering NI / UK. But in dover, Southampton, Liverpool, etc do we have hundreds of people in yellow jackets checking, going through item by item every container that arrives from China, India, etc. NO. so why is a physical border required in Ireland


We do have Customs checkpoints at all these places, yes.

The difference in Ireland is that there is not a body of water separating NI with ROI as there is between UK and mainland Europe.

That's why a physical border is required.
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby Elessar » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:11 am

WeeMann wrote:
Spook2 wrote:two things I cannot understand

backstop / physical border
said its required to check goods from ROI / EU entering NI / UK. But in dover, Southampton, Liverpool, etc do we have hundreds of people in yellow jackets checking, going through item by item every container that arrives from China, India, etc. NO. so why is a physical border required in Ireland


We do have Customs checkpoints at all these places, yes.

The difference in Ireland is that there is not a body of water separating NI with ROI as there is between UK and mainland Europe.

That's why a physical border is required.


It would also be required to prevent freedom of movement. One of those Polish/Romanian/Bulgarian people that Brexiters are so concerned about could get a Ryanair flight from Warsaw to Dublin and then walk into the UK unopposed.
 
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby Elessar » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:16 am

Spook2 wrote: WHY impose these requirements. He freely talked to the IRA whilst they were killing UK citizens, he freely talked to Hamas, etc, etc, with NO prior requirements. double standards. He just wants chaos and nothing more.
As a business owner I am truly scared of that man getting in nr 10. economic disaster will follow.


Yes, Corbyn spoke to people affiliated with the IRA. He also speaks to people involved in Hamas. He also campaigned for the release of Nelson Mandela whilst the Tories were supporting apartheid in South Africa. Time and time again he has been on the right side of history.

Don’t forget that the Tories are RIGHT NOW in a ‘confidence and supply’ quasi-coalition with the DUP. If you’re upset about Corbyn’s links to Sinn Fein you should be just as upset about the current government’s formal pact with the DUP/UDA.
 
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby Elessar » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:28 am

Of course the UDA wasn’t responsible for all the murders of Irish civilians living under British occupation. The British Army has been more than happy to chip in with a few massacres when the occasion has arisen, usually under a Tory government.
 
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby bigV » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:09 am

Elessar wrote:It would also be required to prevent freedom of movement. One of those Polish/Romanian/Bulgarian people that Brexiters are so concerned about could get a Ryanair flight from Warsaw to Dublin and then walk into the UK unopposed.


Yes, that's my dream in life - to fly to Ireland and to illegally cross the border by foot to go and live as an illegal immigrant in a country that overwhelmingly voted that it didn't want any of my people living there.

If you consider less than 2% an overwhelming margin, that is.

Trevor Noah of The Daily Show commented that the US and the UK are now "partners in chaos". Special relationship indeed.

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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby Elessar » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:11 am

bigV wrote:
Elessar wrote:It would also be required to prevent freedom of movement. One of those Polish/Romanian/Bulgarian people that Brexiters are so concerned about could get a Ryanair flight from Warsaw to Dublin and then walk into the UK unopposed.


Yes, that's my dream in life - to fly to Ireland and to illegally cross the border by foot to go and live as an illegal immigrant in a country that overwhelmingly voted that it didn't want any of my people living there.

If you consider less than 2% an overwhelming margin, that is.

Trevor Noah of The Daily Show commented that the US and the UK are now "partners in chaos". Special relationship indeed.

V.


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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby JLP » Thu Jan 17, 2019 11:27 am

Politicians are saying May is refusing to compromise in her meetings today. Her deal was smashed to smithereens on Tuesday in the Commons. If it is not that deal and she will not budge then a no deal is the only option she will get. Which considering her approach to certain policies when she was Home Secretary might be what she really wants after all.
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby bigV » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:26 am

Elessar wrote:You want to steal all our jobs whilst also not working and claiming benefits!


Image

V.
 
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby bigV » Fri Jan 18, 2019 7:32 pm

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... -the-times

Excuse me, I have something in my eye...

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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby Elessar » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:09 pm

Why is James Dyson moving to Singapore? I thought he was very excited about Brexit?

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-46962093
 
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby WeeMann » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:20 pm

This makes for interesting reading. This is for those leavers who cite the EU forcing their laws on us as a good idea for voting leave.

The Commons Library has looked at every law introduced in the UK between 1996 and 2014 (34105) to see how many were influenced by the EU (4515) and, of those, how many the UK opposed (72).

72 laws from 34105 that we didn't want.

Even better it looks at what those laws were that we opposed.

Go on, have a look.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1087 ... 80736.html
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby Kes » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:59 am

Elessar wrote:Of course the UDA wasn’t responsible for all the murders of Irish civilians living under British occupation. The British Army has been more than happy to chip in with a few massacres when the occasion has arisen, usually under a Tory government.


The thing that leapt out at me in that statement, was the word "occupation".

At the moment, Northern Ireland is part of the UK. It is represented by locally voted in MPs in the House of Commons, democratically. It is a very one sided and biased opinion that would ever say the place is, or was, "occupied". When the people in the South, had a political case that they felt they "were" being "occupied" by an exterior force, it was resolved, and the Republic came into being, eventually.

When "Northern Ireland" has a referendum, and the people who actually live there, decide it either needs to be independent, or joined to the Republic of Ireland, then it "could" be considered as "occupied".

Sinn Fein have been using a statistic for years, that 70% of Irish people want a united Ireland, but that would be like asking the whole of Europe if Brexit should happen. For most of the people they'd ask, it's not their decision to make.

The way it sits, at the moment, is the "majority" of people living in Northern Ireland, want to remain part of the UK, you might not like that fact, as it doesn't represent how you feel, but it IS a fact. What are you feeling should happen? Redress the balance somehow? Do a Palestine, and drive the non-believers out? Segregate the country further, so the Catholics have their very own West Bank and Gaza Strip?

You won't get me saying that the way the troubles were handled were in any way right, but equally, I can't try and justify any form of terrorism as a necessary way to resolve the situation. "Just because they did this, we did that!" compounds the issue, and draws more people into the "tit for tat" psychology.
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Re: The EU Referendum

Postby Elessar » Sat Jan 26, 2019 12:32 pm

I’ve got no problem with the fact that the majority of people in Northern Ireland want to remain part of the UK. They also want to remain part of the EU, but it turns out that having both just isn’t possible any more. I’m also very happy with Northern Ireland being part of the UK.

But if you’re an Irish citizen living in Northern Ireland and you’re getting fired at by the British Army for taking part in a peaceful protest, it’s going to feel a lot like a military occupation. If this isn’t occupation, then I don’t know what is.

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Also, 4 of the 18 seats in Northern Ireland are not currently represented in the House of Commons.
 
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