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Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:36 pm
by JLP
fairydandy wrote:
JLP wrote:The remain campaign focussed too much on scare tactics.


...and they are still doing it!


As well they might. David Davis said today that no actual studies have been done on the impact of Brexit which is astonishing considering the impact it will have on future generations.

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:38 pm
by fairydandy
JLP wrote:
fairydandy wrote:
JLP wrote:The remain campaign focussed too much on scare tactics.


...and they are still doing it!


As well they might. David Davis said today that no actual studies have been done on the impact of Brexit which is astonishing considering the impact it will have on future generations.


What about the impact of staying in? Will that be published?

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:43 pm
by JLP
I don't know and I don't care for myself. It is my children I am concerned for. They will have to live with the decisions made for far longer than I will. Let's hope that things work out for the best.

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:19 pm
by fairydandy
JLP wrote:I don't know and I don't care for myself. It is my children I am concerned for. They will have to live with the decisions made for far longer than I will. Let's hope that things work out for the best.


What do you think is going to happen for heaven's sake?

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:31 pm
by JLP
fairydandy wrote:
JLP wrote:I don't know and I don't care for myself. It is my children I am concerned for. They will have to live with the decisions made for far longer than I will. Let's hope that things work out for the best.


What do you think is going to happen for heaven's sake?


Who knows? But you can get your bottom dollar if it was anything good, they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:45 pm
by Roger
fairydandy wrote:Impossible? No, it's never impossible, but yes, it's difficult. That's not our issue though, nor was it part of the question.


How far do you think that mandate delivered by 52% of 70% should extend?

At the moment it looks like Brexit cannot be delivered without abandoning the Good Friday Agreement. So do you think that there is a mandate for that?

What if Ireland play hard ball and it becomes a military issue - does the referendum provide a mandate for that?

There’s far more at stake than just the EU, and I don’t think the referendum result should be seen as a free pass for the government to do whatever they like to get it done; and certainly not with ‘the will of the people’ as their justification.

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:02 pm
by fairydandy
Roger wrote:
How far do you think that mandate delivered by 52% of 70% should extend?

At the moment it looks like Brexit cannot be delivered without abandoning the Good Friday Agreement. So do you think that there is a mandate for that?

What if Ireland play hard ball and it becomes a military issue - does the referendum provide a mandate for that?

There’s far more at stake than just the EU, and I don’t think the referendum result should be seen as a free pass for the government to do whatever they like to get it done; and certainly not with ‘the will of the people’ as their justification.


They need to find a way El. I just voted, it's not my issue how they deliver it. Sorry, but I honestly couldn't care less.

Edit ...too much going on in other areas to worry about it.... :?

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:35 pm
by Roger
I’ve seen the Brexit/Good Friday conundrum compared to taking eggs out of a baked cake. Do you want to stick with the cake, or would you like a plate full of sticky crumbs?

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:18 pm
by fairydandy
Roger wrote:I’ve seen the Brexit/Good Friday conundrum compared to taking eggs out of a baked cake. Do you want to stick with the cake, or would you like a plate full of sticky crumbs?


Sorry El, I just don't share your pessimism over this. They will find a way.

As passionate as you are a 'Remainer', is as passionate as I am as a 'Leaver'....but you know that anyway. We might meet again one day and I'll still buy you a few beers! ;)

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:30 pm
by Roger
fairydandy wrote:
Roger wrote:I’ve seen the Brexit/Good Friday conundrum compared to taking eggs out of a baked cake. Do you want to stick with the cake, or would you like a plate full of sticky crumbs?


Sorry El, I just don't share your pessimism over this. They will find a way.

As passionate as you are a 'Remainer', is as passionate as I am as a 'Leaver'....but you know that anyway. We might meet again one day and I'll still buy you a few beers! ;)


To be honest I'm not really that bothered by it - it won't affect me much, and a lot of the people who will suffer the most are those who voted for it, and they seem fairly chilled about the prospect.

I'm worried about Northern Ireland though, because it really is an impossible conundrum. Seriously, there's no way round it without something else giving. Now maybe that will be okay - if Tony Blair and Bill Clinton can come up with Good Friday, I'm sure um...Theresa May and Donald Trump can come up with something just as good....hmm.

What I also don't like is the way a lot of Brexit voters don't seem to actually care about the Northern Ireland issue. To them, it's a few hundred thousand people in a part of the UK that they don't have any interest in, so they don't really care what happens. These people voted for their 'independence' from the EU, but don't seem to care about the fact that because Northern Ireland's fate is tied to theirs, this will affect Northern Ireland profoundly. England will perhaps be fine, but this is about the United Kingdom, not just England.

I'll still be an EU citizen regardless of what happens (thanks, funnily enough, to Good Friday).

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:37 pm
by fairydandy
Roger wrote:
What I also don't like is the way a lot of Brexit voters don't seem to actually care about the Northern Ireland issue.


El, the Remainers wouldn't generally care either, they only care now because it's yet another opportunity for Brexit to fail!

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 9:43 pm
by Roger
fairydandy wrote:
Roger wrote:
What I also don't like is the way a lot of Brexit voters don't seem to actually care about the Northern Ireland issue.


El, the Remainers wouldn't generally care either, they only care now because it's yet another opportunity for Brexit to fail!



Yes, you’re probably right there.

I’m genuinely concerned though, and I was posting about it 18 months ago as well.

Tell you what - I’m glad I got Irish citizenship 6 years ago. Well ahead of the curve...and now people are applying in record numbers, and if Good Friday gets scrapped, a lot of them might not be eligible any more.

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:07 am
by Roger
Well, apparently she’s found a way.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040

No hard border, AND Arlene Foster says no red line across the Irish Sea

I still don’t see how it’s possible, so I’m interested to see how they’ve managed it! Interesting that they haven’t said what has been agreed yet. Buying time hoping the impossible magically becomes possible? Or maybe I’m missing an obvious solution.

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:22 am
by Roger
Here’s the detail:

http://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/sy ... _Union.pdf

Summary version: Brexit is cancelled. Sorry guys.

Look at points 42-56. It says that until a unique solution can be found for Northern Ireland the preserves the Good Friday Agreement, the UK effectively stays in the EU with freedom of trade and movement.

I’ve said already that leaving the EU and keeping the GFA is impossible, and unless I’m missing something, I stand by it.

Farage is going to lose his shit once he realises.

Re: The EU Referendum

PostPosted: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:27 am
by JLP
This might be a dumb question but why, if there is no hard border between EU states, do I need a passport to go to mainland Europe. We went on a coach holiday to Germany last year. We had to show passports at the ferry terminal and I got my bags searched but when we got to the border with Holland and Germany, we never even stopped.