French Election 2017

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Re: French Election 2017

Postby Tarkus » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:52 pm

Elessar wrote:
Tarkus wrote:I'd like to see Le Pen get in, and vote for Frexit- because our sorry lot are seeming to drag their heels over Brexit so much that when France leaves, there soon won't be an EU left to leave.


I'd rather stay in the EU because I'd rather be Team Germany than Team Nazi (never thought I'd be writing that sentence!) when the shit hits the fan!


Sorry, I disagree there. The EU is gradually collectivising things as the old USSR used to do, with their five year plans, collective farms and so on, which led to mass starvation and drove some to cannibalism to survive. OK, it's not reached that stage yet, but if it continues unchecked, I'm sure it would get like that in the years to come- that was my main reason for wanting out.
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby Elessar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:53 pm

Tarkus wrote:True that- things seem to go in cycles. Hard times make tough people- tough people sort the bad stuff out and bring good times- good times make soft people, and soft people create hard times. I think people have just gotten fed up with the powers-that-be shutting down any concerns or debates by labelling them as racists, sexists, etc. and people flocked to the banners of whomever would listen. When their concerns are addressed, most people are very tolerant indeed, as you say.


I do agree, you are empirically absolutely correct. I just don't want it to happen though, because all the previous purges have been somewhat limited in their capacity. A man-made purge in 2016 could genuinely wipe out the human race. While I don't think that will happen, the idea of any kind of mass death, be it through famine, war, poverty, disease or whatever - all of which could happen if we turn our backs on globalisation - doesn't appeal to me at all.
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby Elessar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:57 pm

Tarkus wrote:
Elessar wrote:
Tarkus wrote:I'd like to see Le Pen get in, and vote for Frexit- because our sorry lot are seeming to drag their heels over Brexit so much that when France leaves, there soon won't be an EU left to leave.


I'd rather stay in the EU because I'd rather be Team Germany than Team Nazi (never thought I'd be writing that sentence!) when the shit hits the fan!


Sorry, I disagree there. The EU is gradually collectivising things as the old USSR used to do, with their five year plans, collective farms and so on, which led to mass starvation and drove some to cannibalism to survive. OK, it's not reached that stage yet, but if it continues unchecked, I'm sure it would get like that in the years to come- that was my main reason for wanting out.


I think that listing the many ENORMOUS differences between the EU and the USSR would be an exercise in futility, because I'm sure you're aware of them yourself. A few major ones though...no single dictator, much smaller area, no single government...
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby Tarkus » Tue Nov 22, 2016 4:59 pm

But there are historical parallels.
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby Elessar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:02 pm

Tarkus wrote:But there are historical parallels.


Can you think of any historical parallels to the rise of the right in Europe (which, by the way, gets your seal of approval)?
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Nov 22, 2016 5:24 pm

Tarkus wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:
I think the trouble is that the whinging left have had us all by the balls for so long now by playing the race card, etc. every time they wish to win an argument that we have all become scared to speak the truth in some cases.

In the UK I think most of us get along quite harmoniously for most of the time (different colours, sexualities, religions), but we need to stand up and tell the Muslim extremists to fuck off: no to your Sharia law courts in our tolerant country, no to your cruel Halal shit in our animal-loving country and no to your outdated, racist, misogynistic views in our free country. If people all stood together and made a stand against these vile monsters then maybe things would improve.

And, newsflash! Multiculturalism does not always work, people. Some cultures will never get on and never gel.

We need to grow our balls back.


True that- things seem to go in cycles. Hard times make tough people- tough people sort the bad stuff out and bring good times- good times make soft people, and soft people create hard times. I think people have just gotten fed up with the powers-that-be shutting down any concerns or debates by labelling them as racists, sexists, etc. and people flocked to the banners of whomever would listen. When their concerns are addressed, most people are very tolerant indeed, as you say.


Very well said. :)
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby JLP » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:47 pm

Didn't Farage make some comments during the campaign about not wanting to have East Europeans as neighbours? To me that is stereotyping certain nationalities and, in my opinion, is therefore racist. Just because the people he attacks are caucasion does not mean he is not being racist.

If he did represent our country as an ambassador I would seriously look at changing my nationality.
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby JLP » Tue Nov 22, 2016 6:47 pm

When i label Farage as racist does not mean I am labelling anyone else as racist.
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby fairydandy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:29 pm

JLP wrote:Didn't Farage make some comments during the campaign about not wanting to have East Europeans as neighbours? To me that is stereotyping certain nationalities and, in my opinion, is therefore racist. Just because the people he attacks are caucasion does not mean he is not being racist.

If he did represent our country as an ambassador I would seriously look at changing my nationality.


I don't understand how that's racist. There's no law against disliking people is there?
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby JLP » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:19 pm

fairydandy wrote:
JLP wrote:Didn't Farage make some comments during the campaign about not wanting to have East Europeans as neighbours? To me that is stereotyping certain nationalities and, in my opinion, is therefore racist. Just because the people he attacks are caucasion does not mean he is not being racist.

If he did represent our country as an ambassador I would seriously look at changing my nationality.


I don't understand how that's racist. There's no law against disliking people is there?


Cannot remember exactly what he said but it was stereotyping them as criminals and so on. Sorry but in my book, that is wrong.
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby fairydandy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:29 pm

JLP wrote:Cannot remember exactly what he said but it was stereotyping them as criminals and so on. Sorry but in my book, that is wrong.


If there's one thing I struggle with in this modern world, it's the notion that we all have to like each other. I live in a street of 30 other properties and I wouldn't necessarily feel that comfortable if the other 29 were all Eastern Europeans, blacks, Muslims or whatever. Surely we are still allowed to like or dislike people, even if it is completely unfounded? Incidentally, I don't like some of my neighbours that much and they are all white British.
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby JLP » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:36 pm

fairydandy wrote:
JLP wrote:Cannot remember exactly what he said but it was stereotyping them as criminals and so on. Sorry but in my book, that is wrong.


If there's one thing I struggle with in this modern world, it's the notion that we all have to like each other. I live in a street of 30 other properties and I wouldn't necessarily feel that comfortable if the other 29 were all Eastern Europeans, blacks, Muslims or whatever. Surely we are still allowed to like or dislike people, even if it is completely unfounded? Incidentally, I don't like some of my neighbours that much and they are all white British.


Who said you have to like someone? Farage is a nasty horrible man. Didn't he go ape shit when Obama got involved in the referendum yet then did exactly the same in the American election?
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby fairydandy » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:37 pm

JLP wrote:
Who said you have to like someone? Farage is a nasty horrible man. Didn't he go ape shit when Obama got involved in the referendum yet then did exactly the same in the American election?


You were accusing him of racism, I merely pointed out it could be just 'dislike'.
 
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby JLP » Tue Nov 22, 2016 10:55 pm

fairydandy wrote:
JLP wrote:
Who said you have to like someone? Farage is a nasty horrible man. Didn't he go ape shit when Obama got involved in the referendum yet then did exactly the same in the American election?


You were accusing him of racism, I merely pointed out it could be just 'dislike'.


May it is racism.
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Re: French Election 2017

Postby Elessar » Tue Nov 22, 2016 11:54 pm

I don't think there's any law against racism itself, and nor should there be. When it turns into actual discrimination, that's when it becomes illegal, and when policymakers hold racist views, that is concerning to non-racists.

There are lots of very sensible biological reasons why people might be racist, and it's not necessarily something that one can control (some psychometric tests suggest I have racial biases), but I like to think that our intellectual minds can overcome our more primitive biological instincts.
 
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