what is racism

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Re: what is racism

Postby Elessar » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:45 pm

action wrote:
Elessar wrote:Personally, I dislike a lot of Islamic culture, and find the burkha distasteful and offensive, I find their beliefs laughable and I find their attitude towards Western values concerning. And I would rather have thousands of them here, annoying me, than have them in their home countries, being killed. Because my morals, as dearly as I hold them, fall into complete irrelevance when people are dying overseas. And the same goes for my safety. The chances of being killed by a terrorist in the UK is roughly 1-in-9.3million. I would happily see my own chances go up to 1-in-1million if it saves thousands of others from certain death.


i don't. i don't have a single fucking problem with islamic culture :?

i can die right this moment if i'm lying.

i've always made it perfectly clear i'm having a problem with salafists. is that islamic culture? thought not!

stop this fucking shit, it's getting utterly desperate :roll:

pull the fucking plug on this site, i say. it's a cancer. it's damaging the Queen legacy



If you only have a problem with the extremists, then I'm not sure why we ever disagree.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby The__KingOfRhye » Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:48 pm

Ace wrote:Is it illegal to discriminate against someone from a country? They are no explicit laws as such.


Yes, there are are. The 1964 US Civil Rights Act, for one.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby Ace » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:00 pm

The__KingOfRhye wrote:
Ace wrote:Is it illegal to discriminate against someone from a country? They are no explicit laws as such.


Yes, there are are. The 1964 US Civil Rights Act, for one.


Sorry, I meant in the UK. I don't think there any UK laws that make it illegal to discriminate against someone from a different country. I might be wrong. Not that I believe you should discriminate against someone from a different country.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby The__KingOfRhye » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:35 pm

Ah, I see. Sometimes I guess I just assume people are from where I am...lol

Edit: Nationality is covered by UK anti-discrimination law, too.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby musicalprostitute » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:15 pm

Elessar wrote:The quickest and easiest way to stop being accused of racism is to stop this pretence that the only thing wrong with what you're saying is that it's 'not politically correct'. Political correctness annoys me too. What we're dealing with isn't it.


I have another idea. Let us nip all this in the bud once and for all; I mean, none of us really want to bitch and go round in circles forever - we are all adults here so let's act like adults and instead of all this point-proving let us debate it properly. I give you my word that if you back up your racist accusations with any post of mine then I shall answer in a serious fashion and maybe - just maybe - we can sort some of this shit out. What do you think?

At the end of the day, to call someone a racist is a big accusation and if you really believe it then why not debate it with me with any relevant evidence? I am more than willing to address any accusations you want to make out in the open on here - everyone can then look and pick holes in anything I have previously written or any answer I shall give with relevance to previous posts. Sound fair?

This way, you get to 'call me out' so to speak (as you believe I am racist) and I get to defend myself properly (as I clearly believe I am not racist).

By the way, the same goes to JLP: if you want to give me the reasons why you think I have made any racist statement on here - out in the open for all to see - then please do.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby musicalprostitute » Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:16 pm

Tarkus wrote:
musicalprostitute wrote:...but, alas, this never happens in a situation like this: the accusers accuse and walk away and the accused has the dirty word hanging over his head. Not on.


Luckily, some of us don't take things at face value, and are more than capable of making our own minds up about people- plus, with plenty of life experience, some of us understand the concept of context, which makes all the difference, and helps us to understand what was actually meant, rather than what was read into it.


I know that; and I thank fuck that is the case! It gives me some hope. :)

And cheers.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby Ace » Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:12 pm

The__KingOfRhye wrote:Ah, I see. Sometimes I guess I just assume people are from where I am...lol

Edit: Nationality is covered by UK anti-discrimination law, too.


You are indeed correct, Ive just checked. It is incorporated in to the race discrimination legislation. Not that I would ever discriminate against someone because of their nationality.

I still advocate however that race and nationality are not the same thing.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby Elessar » Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:52 pm

Ace wrote:
The__KingOfRhye wrote:Ah, I see. Sometimes I guess I just assume people are from where I am...lol

Edit: Nationality is covered by UK anti-discrimination law, too.


You are indeed correct, Ive just checked. It is incorporated in to the race discrimination legislation. Not that I would ever discriminate against someone because of their nationality.

I still advocate however that race and nationality are not the same thing.


Well there is no genetic marker for any given 'race'. In other words, biologically speaking, race does not exist.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby YAFF » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:52 pm

Elessar wrote:The quickest and easiest way to stop being accused of racism is to stop this pretence that the only thing wrong with what you're saying is that it's 'not politically correct'. Political correctness annoys me too. What we're dealing with isn't it.


Absolutely! That's the new trojan horse for many closet racists. They use their anti-PC whining as a way to defend questionable opinions and comments. It's a bit clever in a surreptitious way (because most people are annoyed by the overreach of political correctness to begin with) but I don't need for it to be PC to call you a racist.

prostitute, simple question. Is Donald Trump racist?
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Re: what is racism

Postby action » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:12 am

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Last edited by action on Sun May 07, 2017 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what is racism

Postby Ace » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:29 am

...which brings us back to the question, what is racism. I think the reason that some posters are getting hot under the collar about racism is that everyone seems to approach it from a different perspective.

I've always viewed racism as someone who discriminates against someone due to their ethnicity. Others broaden this to include nationality. To this extent, anyone who is anti-immigration proposes that we discriminate against non-UK nationals by not automatically allowing them to enter the UK and are therefore racist. The same applies in the US.

To this degree, Trump supporters and Brexiteers are automatically considered racist.

Pretty much most countries in the world have immigration controls and therefore discriminate against others from other countries. Ergo, immigration control of any kind is racist.

For the record, I have no issue with immigration from any country to any country as long as there is sustainability.

Is any form of ism acceptable? Is any form of ism less acceptable than others?
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby action » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:52 am

.
Last edited by action on Sun May 07, 2017 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what is racism

Postby JLP » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:09 am

Ace wrote:...which brings us back to the question, what is racism. I think the reason that some posters are getting hot under the collar about racism is that everyone seems to approach it from a different perspective.

I've always viewed racism as someone who discriminates against someone due to their ethnicity. Others broaden this to include nationality. To this extent, anyone who is anti-immigration proposes that we discriminate against non-UK nationals by not automatically allowing them to enter the UK and are therefore racist. The same applies in the US.

To this degree, Trump supporters and Brexiteers are automatically considered racist.

Pretty much most countries in the world have immigration controls and therefore discriminate against others from other countries. Ergo, immigration control of any kind is racist.

For the record, I have no issue with immigration from any country to any country as long as there is sustainability.

Is any form of ism acceptable? Is any form of ism less acceptable than others?


I don't think all Trump or Brexit supporters are racist though. Now members of organisations such as the KKK and the EDL then yes, I would say they are racist.

Whenever someone tries to discuss this emotive subject with you, there are no accusations of racism or political correctness thrown about. The matter gets discussed, points are raised and things move on. That is the way it should be. You see their point and they see yours, even if no agreement is reached.

Others maybe not so. Are they not prepared to realise why people react to their posts as they do and get all defensive, throwing accusations one way or the other.

A good example is the story at Christmas about the food donated by a certain group. It was a story that came up on my Facebook feed and no more. Yet I was immediately accused of having an agenda. Then the Berlin atrocity happened.

Believe it or not, I understand there are problems with immigration in some areas of the country. Lincolnshire especially has issues and that is close to my home place. There is a main road in Hull that you cannot see a shop, other than a bookies, that sells British food. I get that annoys and irritates people.

The problem with this form of communication is we can only read what people are saying. That can and does mean things can be taken out of context. Whereas if we were in a bar or a coffee shop, things would be different.
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Re: what is racism

Postby Elessar » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:28 am

Maybe the correct term is sectarian?
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby Ace » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:32 am

action wrote:you don't have to discriminate to be a racist, and racism goes above and beyond the mere act of discrimination under the anti discrimination legislation.

"discrimination" implies a positive action; the refusal of granting certains rights to people of a certain race.

for example, if you refuse to rent your apartment to someone of a particular race, you deny that person the right to rent an apartment. Under the anti-discrimination legislation, that is discrimination (note: the law doesn't call it "racism", but rather "discrimination" on certain grounds)

to know what racism is, you have to look further than what is written In the law.

no law forbids "being" a racist, "thinking" as a racist. for example if you are an ass in traffic towards drivers of a certain race, anti discrimination law can't do much about it. But you're still a racist.

Racism is illegal under certain conditions. To know if you show "illegal" racism, refer to the law.

"Racism" should be defined as an irrational dislike of people with a certain skin colour, which can or can not manifest itself in positive actions, and which under certain conditions is illegal.


I agree, you can be racist without exhibiting any racist behaviour. I think your final definition sums it up. I particularly like the word 'irrational'. However, as per my previous post, nationality and religion has also entered the definition lately, not just skin colour (or as I'd prefer to say, ethnicity).

I'm not a big fan of religion (any religion) and when prompted, I would be happy to say so. I'd like to think that my views are not irrational (I think religion is irrational) but if you start to lump religion and ethnicity together and brand an anti-religionist racist, then it stifles the religion debate. Obviously, the law states you must not discriminate on the basis of religion, which I agree with, but this doesn't mean that I must agree with religion and all its traditions. As long as those traditions and practices abide by the law, fine with me. But I do have friends, and family, that are very religious and I sometimes find their views (if not behaviours) unacceptable. Some are anti gay, others feel that their religion should be given priority over other religions when laws are made. In these cases, it is based on their 'religious' beliefs. Whereas I can 'park' this aspect of their views for friendships sake, it does also cloud my acceptance of them.

So, to a degree, someone's use of religion to justify their behaviour can influence my opinion of them. And I'd like to think this isn't irrational. So if a devout Catholic tells me that practicing homosexuals are committing a sin, I like to think that I can call them out on the issue. And dependant on how hard they push the point, actually dislike them because of it. In the same way, if someone tells me their religion and customs discriminate against women, I should also be allowed to call them out for it, and, if they push the point, dislike them for it.

I have to say, all my religious friends, of all religions, do not 'push' these views and if they believe them, certainly do not practice them in public. This has allowed us to 'park' this issue and celebrate what we do agree with, not what we disagree with.
 
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