what is racism

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Re: what is racism

Postby Elessar » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:40 am

There are some pretty plausible evolutionary explanations for some people being racist. In fact, in my opinion it makes sense for the population to be split between 'racist' and 'non-racist'. The racists are suspicious of outsiders and therefore protect their territory and resources, ensuring their short term survival. The non-racists interbreed and strengthen the gene pool, ensuring their long term survival.

Based on psychometric tests (eg the Harvard implicit association test, google it), I'm racist. The trick is to accept your pre-programmed instincts and overcome them.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:43 am

At the end of the day, though, any country is only that country while it holds the essence of what it historically is.

If and when, what we call the traditional British are in the minority, and most of what makes us British has either been diluted or completely disappeared, ie our welfare state or National Health Service, then what was the point?

A lot of these countries people are emigrating from, have their own wealth, and ability to sustain their entire communities, the people in control of that wealth just choose not to.
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Re: what is racism

Postby Spook2 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:43 am

personally, I think to call someone a racist is these days an easy cop out to a genuine discussion. Most comments are not racist, but can be bent to appear so.

am I a racist because it annoys me that 'foreigners' come to the UK and do simple, easy jobs that UK citizens don't do?
am I a right wing snob because I think those on the dole should be made to do those jobs?

Are Football clubs 'reverse' racists when they say, they are buying players from east Europe because they are cheaper than the English equivalent. Is this a form of racist. Two players do same job, same ability, but you pick cheaper European footballers over the British. You are therefore picking a based on his origins and background, (exploiting cheap labour) not on ability, but because you know they are cheap. EG - Sam Alladyce - C. Palace manager - comments in Jan transfer window.

in my eyes, that's business. Not racism.
but according to comments I have seen, if applied to a different situation, it would be deemed as racist.



once this discussion comes to an end, can we start a new topic, deleting 'racist' and inserting ' sexist'

now that would be fun !!!!!!!!!!
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby Elessar » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:50 am

Yup, turns out I'm still racist. Just done the test for the first time in about 8 years:

http://implicit.harvard.edu/

Here is your result:
Your data suggest a strong automatic preference for European Americans over African Americans.


There's no shame in it though. The shame would be to act upon it.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:58 am

They say history repeats itself, never more so than in the case of Palestine/Israel.

In the Middle Ages, you had what was called the Holy War, or Crusades. The end result of this was an entire region getting turned over, and the local population having the choice of either "getting out", or getting killed. Sound familiar? Scroll forward a few hundred years, and you get a very powerful dictator in place who has a specific issue with these people, who are by now tenth or eleventh generation immigrants, and he sets about trying in his way to solve his perceived problems.

Safety in numbers doesn't count for shit when genocide starts happening on an industrial scale.

What's happened once, unfortunately CAN happen again.

The only catalyst you need is to hit hard times, have a pissed off population, and have too many drains on what resources you have left. That's all that really happened in mid-thirties Germany.
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Re: what is racism

Postby JLP » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:12 am

Maybe in our ancestors had not taken it upon themselves to colonise the rest of the world and all but destroy the people who were already there, things might be different. If we had not have taken countless tens of thousands of people to work on plantations thousands of miles away from their birth place, life would be much simpler.

Or that could just be more leftie bollocks.
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Re: what is racism

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:23 am

No, it pretty much sums up history.

One nation rapes another, and then gets pissed off that the by product of that rape then claims it's justified rights as offspring, and dilutes their own community.

We can try until the ends of time to make this world work for everybody, but all you need is one mentally unhinged crackpot to gain power in a place with influence, and the whole lot can come crashing down... Not that I'm calling Donald Trump a mentally unhinged crackpot, of course.

You could also say that people wouldn't flood here if the place was a little more unattractive, and maybe that explains what the right wing movement across Europe are up to.
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Re: what is racism

Postby action » Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:51 am

.
Last edited by action on Sun May 07, 2017 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what is racism

Postby JLP » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:03 pm

action wrote:"Racism" should be defined as an irrational dislike of people with a certain skin colour, which can or can not manifest itself in positive actions, and which under certain conditions is illegal.

a certain kind of "irrationalism" is required to have racism. as per definition, disliking race because of race, is racism. disliking race for other reasons can or can not be racism.

it is of note to clarify that, just because something isn't "racism" per se, it doesnt mean it doesnt have other problems. for example a measure can be "not racist", but it can be "careless" or even "stupid"

if i dislike black people because i find them ugly; that's racism because irrational. it can't stand the test of "rationalism"

now take for example the travel ban by Trump. he disallows people from certain countries. it is impossible to tell, by that element alone, if it was a racist measure yes or no. to find out, we must investigate if the measure is "irrational". And here is, where the difficulties arise. Trump claims the travel ban is justified for safety reasons. he refers to the recent string of terrorist attacks on western soil. that reason, isn't irrational. it's based on facts and obvious safety concerns. it would only be racist if he issued a travel ban if say, terrorist attacks didn't happen. because then, it become irrational.

now like i said before, it doesnt mean that just because trump's travel ban isnt racist, doesnt mean it doesnt have other problems. maybe the safety concerns are inadequate or unfounded. but that is up to debate, and it's then a matter of majority against minority. if the majority feels that such a ban is justified by safety reasons, it becomes even harder to call it racist


but like we had the discussion the other week action, how many terrorist attacks have there been in the USA since 9/11 by Muslims from other countries?

According to our security services in the UK, there have been several terrorist attacks prevented by good policing. Therin lies the answer. The authorities know who the bad guys are so watch them closely. And when the time is right, arrest them.
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Re: what is racism

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:11 pm

Just to show that I can see the angle Trump is approaching it from, not that I agree with it...

The whole concept of terrorism, or guerilla warfare, depending on which side of the fence you're looking at it from, is that you are able to hide within one otherwise innocent social or ethnic group, and conduct your operations more successfully from there.

If the glove was on the other foot, and the bombs were going off in Saudi or the UAE, and it was White Westeners doing it, I think the whole White Westener community living there, would consider themselves as being at risk because of these extremists, and would probably be a bit more proactive at either condemning the violence, or routing out those with the tendency to carry out such acts.

I guess that's the difference. When 7/7 happened, although the perpetrators came from the Asian community, the rest of that community disowned the acts, but not in the same way that other communities would. There didn't seem to be a wave of public opinion to put peer pressure on others in that community against such acts. It was like "Nothing to do with us!"
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Re: what is racism

Postby JLP » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:22 pm

I watched this on BBC 4 last night. Really worth a watch.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0 ... -in-the-uk
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Re: what is racism

Postby Ace » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:05 pm

Elessar wrote:Yup, turns out I'm still racist. Just done the test for the first time in about 8 years:

http://implicit.harvard.edu/

Here is your result:
Your data suggest a strong automatic preference for European Americans over African Americans.


There's no shame in it though. The shame would be to act upon it.


Here is your result:

Your data suggest a slight automatic preference for black people over white people.

I took the black white Race test. A strange result as I have no preference either way.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby Kes » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:33 pm

Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone has ever come up with an algorithm that combines the predictability of someone trying to give a "correct answer" in a psychometric test, with the unpredictability of one of those #8 ball toys you used to see in the 80s and 90s.

Looking at that test, I guess they have.:lookround:
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Re: what is racism

Postby Ace » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:46 pm

Kes wrote:Speaking of which, I wonder if anyone has ever come up with an algorithm that combines the predictability of someone trying to give a "correct answer" in a psychometric test, with the unpredictability of one of those #8 ball toys you used to see in the 80s and 90s.

Looking at that test, I guess they have.:lookround:


On the test there are no subjective questions. There are two at the end that ask for the way you feel towards black or white people but I doubt these form part of the answer.

The test seems to revolve around the speed at which you answer questions put two different ways.
Last edited by Ace on Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
 
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Re: what is racism

Postby musicalprostitute » Tue Mar 07, 2017 2:11 pm

YAFF wrote:
Elessar wrote:The quickest and easiest way to stop being accused of racism is to stop this pretence that the only thing wrong with what you're saying is that it's 'not politically correct'. Political correctness annoys me too. What we're dealing with isn't it.


Absolutely! That's the new trojan horse for many closet racists. They use their anti-PC whining as a way to defend questionable opinions and comments. It's a bit clever in a surreptitious way (because most people are annoyed by the overreach of political correctness to begin with) but I don't need for it to be PC to call you a racist.

prostitute, simple question. Is Donald Trump racist?


I would say your first paragraph is utter bullshit (but then I would). You people just cannot accept that others feel differently about the world than you. I detest this PC crap, yes - one hundred per cent. But I will not have you, JLP or any other race-obsessed individual accuse me of being a racist. I would suggest that you all look at the true definition of 'racism'.

Thing is, I see this a lot. I - and, thankfully, many others - don't agree with the PC brigade, but we will just state our distaste of it all, not turn it into something it is not; you lot, on the other hand, don't like the fact that some of us think for ourselves and disagree with you and so you have to do the only thing you have left - play the boring race card.

As for Trump? Not everyone is interested in what happens in the good ol' US of A. I am sick to the back teeth of hearing about your president and avoid any news on the orange freak; so, I would be the last person to ask my views on him as I know nothing about him.
 
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