Atheism...

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Re: Atheism...

Postby fairydandy » Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:42 pm

YAFF wrote:LOL> Atheists love to think they are under no obligations to defend their opinions. There is a difference between saying "There is no god or gods" and "I don't believe in a god or gods". The former is a claim of knowledge. How do you know "there is no god or gods"? If a god-believer says "there is a god" you will ask for proof. Fair enough. If you say "there is no god" you should have the 'nads to show your work. Otherwise you're just an arrogant twat. You really don't know whether there is or isn't. Agnosticism really is the most reasonable position. I'm an agnostic that believes God is more probable than not.


The statement that 'there is no god' only really works once a person has claimed that there is one. The answer is really for people to stop claiming that there is one, then no answer is required. There is no proof of god, there is nothing, just a hope. That's fine of course, but we need to get the argument the right way around.
 
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Re: Atheism...

Postby musicalprostitute » Wed Aug 16, 2017 10:29 am

sebastian wrote:
YAFF wrote:LOL> Atheists love to think they are under no obligations to defend their opinions.


Because we're not. Neither are agnostics, pantheists, deists or theists, by the way. If we want to keep on living (for a while at least), we're only under obligation of breathing, eating and eliminating waste. Everything else is optional.

YAFF wrote:There is a difference between saying "There is no god or gods" and "I don't believe in a god or gods".


For practical purporses it's the same thing. There's also a difference between saying 'There is no Zeus' and 'I don't believe in Zeus.' Or Yoda, Harry Potter, Spiderman, unicorns, etc. If people can be sure Pennywise the Clown is fictional (since there's a lot of evidence supporting the hypothesis that she was a character created by Stephen King to earn some money) then the same can be applied to Jehovah, Allah, Yahweh, Christ, Vishnu, etc.

YAFF wrote:If a god-believer says "there is a god" you will ask for proof.


No, I won't. They're entitled to say that. Just like I'm entitled to say there isn't.

YAFF wrote:Otherwise you're just an arrogant twat.


No. An arrogant twat is one who believes his/her religion is the right one just because; one who believes the vast and enormous universe was made with them/us in mind; one who believes the universe can't go on without him/her so there must be an afterlife; one who believes a skydaddy will bend the rules of physics at will but won't do it to prevent a kid from being raped by a priest, but instead will focus on answering pleas to find the carkeys or for a traffic light to change from amber to green sooner or for someone's favourite football team to score.

YAFF wrote:You really don't know whether there is or isn't.


So, if someone says Harry Potter doesn't exist (as opposed to 'I don't believe Harry Potter exists'), are they an arrogant twat?


Ah, the voice of reason and logic; well stated, Sebastian. Absolutely spot on.

I can never get my head around the way these religious types think: basically, if someone says something exists then it must exist unless the rest of us can prove otherwise. And the fucking arrogance of them all - thinking that their non existent god will lend a helping hand if they pray to him because their trivial little problems are obviously far more important than starvation around the globe, kids dying of cancer, etc...it is all so mental it beggars belief.
 
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