"Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby JLP » Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:54 pm

AutumnGirlLybbie wrote:
Princess of Taylor wrote:
JLP wrote:Of course, no one would deny that 9/11 was anything but an horrific, world changing event. It is one of the few instances in my life where I can say exactly where I was when I first heard that something was happening. I can even remember the name of the person who told me that planes had crashed into the WTC.

But to label and/or stereotype a whole culture because of the actions of a handful of maniacs really is stretching things to the limit.

It would be akin to saying that every white person who lives in the southern states of the USA is a racist because, in the past, black people were lynched by a few mindless bigots.


Same here, JLP. Actually I always thought it was rather spooky because I distinctly remember on September 10, 2001 having a conversation with some friends that our generation didn't have that one defining event that everyone remembered where they were: JFK being shot, the moon landing, to a certain extent we had the Challenger explosion but we were awfully young.

Then the next morning, my boyfriend at the time called me and said, "Come outside, something's going on." On one hand I remember that day like it was yesterday and on another hand it seems like a lifetime ago. One thing that is very odd though is that of all the emotions I remember feeling that day, fear wasn't one of them when I'm quite certain it had to have been. My brain must have blocked that part out because just thinking about being stranded on that little island amist all that chaos is terrifying nine years later.

But I absolutely agree that to hold all Muslims responsible for 9/11 is just uninformed and offensive. Like I said before, we were all in that city together, scared out of our minds about what was going to happen next, and guess what, there were thousands of Muslims among us feeling exactly the same way.


Isn't it weird what we all remember from that day, and that week for that matter?! My memory of the weather alone is so vivid.



It is one of those events AGL. Much like I remember 7/7 over here but that is mainly due for the way QOL went that day.

The thing with 9/11 is that is was probably the most horrific terrorist event ever and it was more or less played out on live TV.
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Princess of Taylor » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:39 pm

AGL - you're absolutely right.

I vividly remember the smell of carbon and sulfur in the air in the days afterwards. It was so overwhelmingly strong due to all the printers, etc. in the buildings. The air was dark and gritty for days and you'd go outside for five minutes and then feel the need to take a shower.

I will also never forget that it was a Tuesday. For some reason that's just burned in my mind too.

My mom was hundreds of miles away but watched the whole thing on TV. Then obviously I told her about what I experienced. Now she always says she feels like she was there and I feel like I wasn't. It's very surreal really.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Princess of Taylor » Fri Aug 20, 2010 9:46 pm

Innuendoes wrote:I don't know which one of you to answer first. Each and every single one of you have misconstrued and misunderstood everything I said.

I don't read Time Magazine, Newsweek or ANY magazine. I can't afford it!!!!

I also don't watch the news on TV. News isn't allowed in this house!

And, no, no, no, a thousand times NO, I am not saying Muslims are here to overthrow and/or overtake the USA.

Dusty, don't talk to me about the US Revolution. I have done far enough reading about it to make your head spin. I am a direct descendant of at least 12 men who fought in that war and I have read more county and state history books for each area and state, more muster lists and more local histories than you will ever lay your hands on.


I still don't know what your point is supposed to be. I'm really trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but not watching TV or reading Time magazine or being a Revolutionary War descendent doesn't explain your last few posts.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby JLP » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:44 pm

Princess of Taylor wrote:AGL - you're absolutely right.

I vividly remember the smell of carbon and sulfur in the air in the days afterwards. It was so overwhelmingly strong due to all the printers, etc. in the buildings. The air was dark and gritty for days and you'd go outside for five minutes and then feel the need to take a shower.

I will also never forget that it was a Tuesday. For some reason that's just burned in my mind too.

My mom was hundreds of miles away but watched the whole thing on TV. Then obviously I told her about what I experienced. Now she always says she feels like she was there and I feel like I wasn't. It's very surreal really.


I think QOL was about then as I am sue I joined later that month. I wonder if there was any activity on that particular version of the board as the day unfolded as there was on the old board on 7/7.
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby JLP » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:52 pm

Of course back then the internet was on dial up. We were trying like hell at work trying to get onto the BBC site and everything was just locked so we were in the dark for ages until we managed to laod the BBC home page.

I vividly recall going home and asking my wife if she had seen the news. Our children were 7 and 8 at the time so they had been watching kids programmes since they got home from school and she never knew. At the time her sister's husband was working in the States. We tried to call her and couldn't get an answer as she was out. It was a couple of hours later we found out the news that our brother in law had left New York a day or so before 9/11 and was elsewhere in the States.

I sat watching Sky News totally transfixed for hours until I had to go to bed as I was at work the next day. When I got in the next day, one of the first people I saw was a doctor who was a practising Muslim. I will always remember the look of shame on his face as what had been done in the name of his God.
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Princess of Taylor » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:05 pm

The first 24 hours or so were absolute chaos. The authorities were closing and reopening bridges and tunnels because they couldn't figure out if they should shut down the island. People were walking across the Brooklyn Bridge to get home because the traffic was just stopped. Then that night they evacuated Grand Central and the Empire State Building. I spent the evening deciding if I should try to get out of the city or not. In the end, my family decided that it was probably safer to stay so I did.

One of the eeriest memories I have is standing smack dab in the middle of Broadway in the middle of the day and not seeing a single car. There was literally no traffic. Then after a while the people who had started walking uptown began to appear with paper masks that the rescue workers had given them. And public buses filled with folks who couldn't walk that far. There was a good several hours in that afternoon where nobody knew where to go or what to do. We had stood in Washington Square Park (the big arch at the end of 5th Avenue) and watched the first tower fall. Then we panicked about being around so many other people and worried that we might be a target.

But one thing I distinctly remember is my boyfriend and I seeing fighter jets flying over NYC on 9/11. Later reports were that they didn't get jets anywhere near the city for a day or so, but I know for a fact that I saw them with my own eyes. I always wondered why the government reported that inaccurately - surely shooting down one of the planes wasn't an option regardless of how early the jets arrived on the scene.

My boyfriend also had a ridiculous roommate who was in the arts school and was a total moron. He habitually used to sleep until 3pm in the afternoon so he woke up that day with no idea what was going on, but was all bent out of shape that Oprah (or some equally brainless show) was being preempted by news all day. What an ass.

The most obnoxious thing was that the entire city was shut down the next day. Seriously, shut down. If you were a business below 14th Street, you were not allowed to be open, but NYU still wanted to hold classes. Finally the mayor's office had to actually get involved and say, "No way, shut it down." My mom's high school in VA was closed that week and NYU in freakin' NYC didn't think they needed to give students a day or so to process what we'd just been through.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Delilah » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:09 pm

JLP wrote:When I got in the next day, one of the first people I saw was a doctor who was a practising Muslim. I will always remember the look of shame on his face as what had been done in the name of his God.


Yeah, I experienced 9-11 with a Palestinian woman whom I worked with. She was equally horrified, crying like most everyone else, and definitely not cheering or grateful. She was trying to become an American, and the last thing she wanted was to leave Palestine only to encounter more explosions in the US. I believe she had had more than her fill of people blowing things up. Knowing her did provide an interesting perspective on the whole Israel/Palestine/9-11 situation, though. It is apparently not any fun to have to call home on a regular basis to make sure that no one she knew and loved had been hurt when violence would erupt between Israel and Palestine. And that was quite often. Made me think while I was trying to reach my uncle who worked in the Pentagon. Luckily, he worked on the other side of the building. I didn't know whether he was dead or alive for many hours, though. And my coworker went through that quite often with just about everyone she knew from her home.

Well that makes two Muslims I've known who left that particular area because they were so sick of the fighting and just wanted a little space to live their lives. Hmmm.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby JLP » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:14 pm

Princess of Taylor wrote:The first 24 hours or so were absolute chaos. The authorities were closing and reopening bridges and tunnels because they couldn't figure out if they should shut down the island. People were walking across the Brooklyn Bridge to get home because the traffic was just stopped. Then that night they evacuated Grand Central and the Empire State Building. I spent the evening deciding if I should try to get out of the city or not. In the end, my family decided that it was probably safer to stay so I did.

One of the eeriest memories I have is standing smack dab in the middle of Broadway in the middle of the day and not seeing a single car. There was literally no traffic. Then after a while the people who had started walking uptown began to appear with paper masks that the rescue workers had given them. And public buses filled with folks who couldn't walk that far. There was a good several hours in that afternoon where nobody knew where to go or what to do. We had stood in Washington Square Park (the big arch at the end of 5th Avenue) and watched the first tower fall. Then we panicked about being around so many other people and worried that we might be a target.

But one thing I distinctly remember is my boyfriend and I seeing fighter jets flying over NYC on 9/11. Later reports were that they didn't get jets anywhere near the city for a day or so, but I know for a fact that I saw them with my own eyes. I always wondered why the government reported that inaccurately - surely shooting down one of the planes wasn't an option regardless of how early the jets arrived on the scene.

My boyfriend also had a ridiculous roommate who was in the arts school and was a total moron. He habitually used to sleep until 3pm in the afternoon so he woke up that day with no idea what was going on, but was all bent out of shape that Oprah (or some equally brainless show) was being preempted by news all day. What an ass.

The most obnoxious thing was that the entire city was shut down the next day. Seriously, shut down. If you were a business below 14th Street, you were not allowed to be open, but NYU still wanted to hold classes. Finally the mayor's office had to actually get involved and say, "No way, shut it down." My mom's high school in VA was closed that week and NYU in freakin' NYC didn't think they needed to give students a day or so to process what we'd just been through.



I cannot imagine how horrific that it must have been to be in NYC then. I think 7/7 is so stuck as a part of QOL's history because the next day should have been the Hyde Park gig for the 2005 QPR tour. Many of us were due to go. Indeed some were travelling to London on 7/7.

If that had happened 24 hours later, many of us could have been caught up in that tragedy. In fact I remember my children coming home from school and asking me not to go to the gig the next day because they feared for my safety. The gig had been cancelled but I seriously wouldn't have gone if it had gone ahead. i couldn't have put my family through that.
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Princess of Taylor » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:22 pm

That's why I'm really glad that my brain doesn't allow me to remember any fear from that day. I'm sure I was terrified. I must have been, but I don't remember that at all. It'd be absolutely crippling if I could, even now.

The father of one of my very good friend's had a good friend who worked in one of the towers. The day before, another friend called and asked if he wanted to go golfing so he didn't go into the office that morning. When he realized what was going on and where he might have been had it not been for the golf invitation, he very nearly lost it. Scary stuff.

It was just so insane. When the planes were taken over, nobody could have dreamed what the ultimate goal was - it was just so unlike anything that had ever been done before. I had flipped on the TV and was still on the phone with my boyfriend while I got dressed to meet him (shows how out of it I was that day - what on earth was I thinking going outside???). He told me that another plane had just flown really low over the city and then he saw the second plane hit standing in the street and I saw it on a second or two delay on the Today Show. When he saw it, he just started screaming on the phone and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Then I still ran outside! Stupid kid.

I remember 7/7 too but obviously not as vividly. It was so scary to think that we were years away and something like this could still happen.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby JLP » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:29 pm

Princess of Taylor wrote:That's why I'm really glad that my brain doesn't allow me to remember any fear from that day. I'm sure I was terrified. I must have been, but I don't remember that at all. It'd be absolutely crippling if I could, even now.

The father of one of my very good friend's had a good friend who worked in one of the towers. The day before, another friend called and asked if he wanted to go golfing so he didn't go into the office that morning. When he realized what was going on and where he might have been had it not been for the golf invitation, he very nearly lost it. Scary stuff.

It was just so insane. When the planes were taken over, nobody could have dreamed what the ultimate goal was - it was just so unlike anything that had ever been done before. I had flipped on the TV and was still on the phone with my boyfriend while I got dressed to meet him (shows how out of it I was that day - what on earth was I thinking going outside???). He told me that another plane had just flown really low over the city and then he saw the second plane hit standing in the street and I saw it on a second or two delay on the Today Show. When he saw it, he just started screaming on the phone and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. Then I still ran outside! Stupid kid.

I remember 7/7 too but obviously not as vividly. It was so scary to think that we were years away and something like this could still happen.



The thing that always gets me about 9/11 is how the passengers must have felt in those last minutes, knowing they were going to die. And the people in the towers on the floors above where the planes hit knowing there was no escape.

I know one day I will die as will we all. I don't think I would like to know about it 2 minutes beforehand though in a situation like 9/11.
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Princess of Taylor » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:36 pm

The most horrible thing was seeing people jumping from the building. I think the "official reports" are that no one jumped, but they absolutely did.

And no one knew what to do. Everyone kept assuring us that the buildings wouldn't fall. That was the last thing we needed to worry about. They were telling people to stand in the lobbies of the buildings rather than letting them come out into the streets because they were so convinced that the biggest issue was falling debris. Even as we watched the first building fall, it was almost in slow motion. There was this huge plume of smoke and then it just started sinking, almost gracefully. I remember watching it in the park and shouting, "Oh my god, it's falling," and people looked at me like, "No way," they we all realized I was right. Then even after seeing that, we went inside and someone told us that the second one had fallen and we didn't believe them. Even after seeing the first one fall, we just couldn't process it. But I do remember my boyfriend basically falling apart. When we couldn't see the first tower anymore, he looked at me and said, "Do you realize how many people we just saw die?" That was like a punch in the gut because until that second, the people inside the buildings hadn't even really occurred to me.

I agree though - I'd much rather my death take me by surprise. I'm not one of those folks interested in knowing when or where or how. But that said, it makes the folks on the PA flight all the more brave for doing what they did to stop the plane from hitting another building. They knew the plane was going down one way or the other. They were done for, but they still fought for everyone else on the ground. Unbelievably admirable.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby JLP » Fri Aug 20, 2010 11:41 pm

Princess of Taylor wrote:The most horrible thing was seeing people jumping from the building. I think the "official reports" are that no one jumped, but they absolutely did.

And no one knew what to do. Everyone kept assuring us that the buildings wouldn't fall. That was the last thing we needed to worry about. They were telling people to stand in the lobbies of the buildings rather than letting them come out into the streets because they were so convinced that the biggest issue was falling debris. Even as we watched the first building fall, it was almost in slow motion. There was this huge plume of smoke and then it just started sinking, almost gracefully. I remember watching it in the park and shouting, "Oh my god, it's falling," and people looked at me like, "No way," they we all realized I was right. Then even after seeing that, we went inside and someone told us that the second one had fallen and we didn't believe them. Even after seeing the first one fall, we just couldn't process it. But I do remember my boyfriend basically falling apart. When we couldn't see the first tower anymore, he looked at me and said, "Do you realize how many people we just saw die?" That was like a punch in the gut because until that second, the people inside the buildings hadn't even really occurred to me.

I agree though - I'd much rather my death take me by surprise. I'm not one of those folks interested in knowing when or where or how. But that said, it makes the folks on the PA flight all the more brave for doing what they did to stop the plane from hitting another building. They knew the plane was going down one way or the other. They were done for, but they still fought for everyone else on the ground. Unbelievably admirable.



I would like to think that if I was in a situation like that, I would have the guts to have a go knowing that I was going to die anyway. Hopefully i will never find out.
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:17 am

Broooklyn wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:I also don't watch the news on TV. News isn't allowed in this house!


Oh will you stop with this kind of stuff. You supposedly finally get away from your crazy husband, and what...land in someone else's home who is just as insane? Come on now.

You might not believe it but it's true. Leave me alone, now.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:18 am

Delilah wrote:
Innuendoes wrote:Slovak immigrants didn't overthrow Slovakia. They ran from it as fast as they could, if they could get away from Franz Jozef's army. Same with Hungarian immigrants, Polish, Russian, Ukranian, et al. They never had an agenda to change the US. They desperately desired to fit in and become one of "us". Not blow up buildings and blow themselves up to make statements or kill other people. It was a totally different time in history of all countries involved.

And the Revolution wasn't caused by our ancestors trying to overthrow anything, per se, either. The ones that wanted it that way (the Loyalists) were killed during the war, for the most part. We don't descend from them, we descend from the people that had the guts to say no and take up arms to stop being ruled and have no say in anything they did or how much tax they were forced to pay. Don't forget, "No Taxation Without Representation". It wasn't the situation that set off the war but it had a lot to do with it. Lord Dunmore's War was the first fight that led into the Revolution, most likely caused by one Jacob DeWitt who killed all of one of the most noble chief's family and set off the battle at Point Pleasant.

People had come here to escape being ruled, not to take over. Those were the original people who came here and they got on well with the Native Americans of the North East who helped them greatly. It did happen that the Native Americans were horribly taken over by those white man that did come into Kentucky, Tennessee and then out west and those that caused all the 5 Civilized tribes to move on the Trail Of Tears. I know you are part NA. Michael is Seminole, Creek and Cherokee and nothing else. His skin is as dark as Henry Garza's.


Wait a second...are you saying that Muslim immigrants are here to destroy America?


No, only a small few. The Islamic extremists, not the rest.
 
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Re: "Dear Mr. Murdoch..." the media manipulation of the US.

Postby Innuendoes » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:19 am

JLP wrote:How many Americans have died in the USA at the hands of Muslim terrorists post 9/11? The way some go on you would think it was thousands upon thousands.

How many Muslim civilians have died at the hands of Americans in Iraq post 9/11? That is many thousands.

Sorry Inny but when you infer that Muslims are in the USA purely to blow up buildings and kill innocent people you are really talking rubbish.
I am sorry you think that because you have mistaken everything I said, then post what you *think* I said, then judge me for your and everyone else's mistake.
 
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